Davisite Banner. Left side the bicycle obelisk at 3rd and University. Right side the trellis at the entrance to the Arboretum.

Davis City Council are FOOLS to Declare a Davis Position on Israel-Palestine (this Tuesday Evening)

The Davis City Council is poised to pass a resolution this Tuesday night (12/12) on Israel-Palestine.

Last Tuesday a couple of dozen people spoke during general public comment regarding this upcoming resolution. About 95% spoke in favor of a ‘cease fire’ by Israel. The speakers appeared to be organized by Jewish Voices for Peace who had “Not in Our Name” t-shirts, along with several persons of Palestinian lineage. One Jewish man, not from Jewish Voices for Peace, spoke of Hamas as a dangerous organization.

Most who spoke asked for the resolution by the City of Davis to include a demand a ‘cease fire’. There were several who spoke of the genocide against the Palestinians. This word is a matter of intense debate and emotional weight. Others argue instead that Hamas had ‘genocidal intentions’ on October 7th but lacked the means to carry it out. While word definitions hold no inherent truth, groups of people define words to hold an agreed-upon meaning, and certain words and phrases invoke intense emotional reactions in regard to this conflict.

I had a clear message for the City Council last week: “Don’t Do It”. As some may know, I stand firm in the belief that cities should only conduct city business and not get involved in national or global issues, no matter how seemingly righteous or important. But the potential repercussions from this resolution goes so far beyond that. This resolution has the potential to damage Davis both within and from without . . . and needlessly. We all remember the long and tortured tale of the Davis Ghandi statue, another dip of the Davis toe into international waters. What could go wrong displaying a depiction of  ‘a man of peace’? What could go wrong with supporting a declaration ‘for peace’?

The Jewish congregation in Davis, the only major Jewish gathering place in Yolo County, along with numerous Jews in town and at the college who do not attend the congregation, have extremely varied views on Israel and the current state of the Israel-Palestine conflict. There are conservative Zionists, progressive peace pilgrims, and every stripe in between.

Surprising to many non-Jews is discovering that some of their Jewish friends who are seemingly liberal/progressive suddenly appear to be staunch conservatives when it comes to what may be an existential threat to Israel — to their people — to their tribe. Friendships (and the less-important ‘friend on Facebook’) have been strained and/or ended over this in the last two months.

Over the last few weeks I’ve been watching interviews with witnesses to the Hamas attack of October 7th. I’ve also been watching interviews with women who volunteered to prepare the bodies of Jewish woman for burial — those killed in the October 7th massacre. Details of each body — of each unique, depraved atrocity. I forced myself to watch these videos. I haven’t been OK since.

Jewish burial requires that all parts of the body, including every drop of blood, be buried together in the burial shroud. One woman said that repeatedly they found bodies shot once in the torso and then shot multiple times in the head to mutilate and spray bone and blood. They did the best they could to match body parts, but often were not able to do so. There were also piles of human ashes and bone fragments purposefully stirred after burning (some forensically-proven alive when burned) in order to make burying of an individual impossible. I will spare you the descriptions of the described sexual trauma to the bodies and what that meant for those women so victimized.

Some have called Hamas ‘animals’ for what was perpetrated, and others have been critical of the use of that emotional and literally dehumanizing term. The most terrifying reality is: human beings did this. What broke in these people that they found glee and pride in such depravity? Was it revenge on losing land or homeland? Was it religious fervor? Was it revenge for a friend or relative killed? Was it tribalism? Were they amped up on drugs? Was it group-think under authoritarian rule? Was it deeply-implanted Jew hatred? Look online and all these theories have been theorized, proven and disproven. The truth one chooses, and the algorithm one is fed, is relative to one’s tribal affiliation and one’s beliefs.

I fully admit to bias. I’m not going to try to fool you that I’m such an evolved human being that I feel for Palestinians and Israelis equally. My tribe was hit, and I feel that. I knew I had distant relatives, 2nd cousins-ish in Israel, but I didn’t know their names or anything about them. I have since learned that one distant cousin helped establish Kibbutz Urim in southern Israel, less than 10 miles further from Gaza than Kibbutz Be’eri, and Re’im where the Nova Music Festival was held. Urim was spared, although a handful of Hamas were killed in the driveway to the Kibbutz by kitat konenut — tiny, partially-armed units of resident volunteers.

Much worse, another distant cousin’s wife’s family-of-origin lived in the country amidst the kibbutz’s and worked on these cooperative farms, an area I imagine to be somewhat similar to Full Belly Farm and the Capay Valley. Her entire family, parents and siblings, were slaughtered as Hamas stopped at her family's house to kill on their way deeper into Israel, to kill more. I didn’t know these people, but they are family, and that makes it more personal. I can only imagine how it feels to live in Israel where nearly everyone lost people they knew and loved.

Another sobering fact I discovered about Kibbutz Urim it that it was built very near the Palestinian village site of Al-Imara — a village ‘depopulated’ during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war.

At last week’s City council meeting, I was impressed overall with the tone and respect of the comments. I tend to listen more to the personal stories of those actually affected (rather than allies). One Palestinian woman told of a friend who lost 20 family members. Hearing such stories got to me. That’s someone who lost members of their tribe, their family. They don’t want to lose anyone else. The prospect of a ‘cease fire’ may seem a way to spare the lives of persons they know and love. And, feeling powerless to stop the killings, maybe this blue-city council meeting is the only place they feel they can be heard.

The unfortunate reality is that war is defined by the aggressor. And in Israel-Palestine, ‘who is the aggressor’ depends on your tribe and your beliefs. If you draw any starting line, someone will say, “yeah, but no . . .” and draw a different starting line. For every ‘truth’ found on the internet on this subject, there is an equal and opposite video with the ‘opposite truth’. Israel may represent the most successful mass reintroduction of a ‘people’ to their native lands in world history. Or . . . Israel may represent a cruel relocation of a ‘people’ from their native lands and into an inhumane, isolated/walled-in refugee strip. Two truths and two lies, in harmony and in eternal conflict. All one, all none.

My relatives came to America to escape oppression and death. My Jewish relatives were escaping the pogroms of far-eastern Europe and Russia. My German relatives left to avoid having their sons being drafted into a war they did not believe in. They didn’t come to conquer and oppress Native Americans. I know of no family stories of direct conflict with Native Americans, though certainly all of us reading this have . . . #ahem# . . . ‘benefited’ from the spoils of that oppression and killing, because we live and play where once they did. Ironically this ‘stolen benefit’ applies across the board to American Jews, American Europeans and American Palestinians.

Israel was created by a very large mass of Jewish people in a return to the place these people consider to be their homeland. A place the Jewish people could finally be ‘safe’, soon after the Holocaust and mostly still not welcome in Europe, and with the mass expulsion of Jews from many countries of the Middle East and northern Africa. From the ‘safety’ perspective, Israel may be considered a horrible failure. A woman I know in Israel told me years ago you live life differently in Israel, because you wake up knowing this may be the day that you die. Despite occasional acts of terrorism, which seemingly had died down in recent years, I had always thought she was being over-dramatic. As of October 7th I realized I don’t know shit about what life is like in Israel, and I sure as hell don’t know shit about what life is like in Gaza.

Years ago I heard a comedian do a very entertaining bit about giving the Jewish people Baja California as a solution to the Middle East crisis. In searching for a YouTube video of this bit, I instead found that this idea had been in serious consideration as a location for Jewish refugees to settle after World War II. What that would have looked like and how that would come about I have no idea. How different would the world be today? How safe would the Jewish refugees and immigrants be? How would things be today for the native Baja Californians?

Something in the recent 60-Minutes segment on protests on college campuses got to me. They interviewed a Palestinian protest leader who seemed to condone the Hamas attacks on Israel. He described how at age 10 his friend was killed next to him by an Israeli soldier, how he held the body wanting his friend to come back to life. He clarified that he did not condone the killings in southern Israel, but rather he empathized with those breaking free of the walls surrounding Gaza, and returning, however fleetingly, to the lands they considered theirs.

What captivated me wasn't his exact words, but a look in his eye:  a rapid flashing between deep-seated anger and unfathomable pain. I’d seen that look before, in the eyes of some Native Americans I’ve met. I suspect those who’s families have stories of murder, relocation and other atrocities committed against them when America expanded west and conquered their people. Such ancestral pain doesn’t go away in 75 years, or 150 years.

I have tried in my head to localize October 7th, to create a scenario in my head to make sense of the conflict under local circumstances. What if the anger of all the native Americans, like what I believe I saw in that Palestinian’s eyes, led them on a righteous quest to reclaim America. They came to northern California, slowly at first, and after a few decades there were millions. They secretly armed Cache Creek Casino with rockets, grenades and machine guns, first taking over the Capay Valley, and eventually Clear Lake, Ukiah and Willits, and reaching the sea at Fort Bragg. California didn’t dare use military force to push them into the Pacific and be accused of another annihilation of its native people. After minor but mounting attacks on Woodland and nearby farms, California built a wall around the area. California mostly controlled the goods movement into the area, and the millions of people lived in squalor.

The anger and isolation and righteousness of their cause turned into religious fervor and hatred of those outside the wall. A leader emerged, living a billionaire’s life in a luxury hotel in Toronto (somehow in this fictional world Canada is our arch enemy). A large number of the people, living in these horrible conditions, turned to the angry militia as their leaders, as their hope. The children were taught to hate those outside the wall. Monetary support from Toronto and clandestine arms shipments from North Korea prepared for the inevitable rebellion.

Rockets were fired into Woodland, and occasionally one would reach Davis or West Sacramento, but rarely was anyone killed as they lacked targeting technology. Bomb shelters were built in response. Then one day in early May rocket trails filled the sky while thousands broke through the wall. There was a mass slaughter of residents in Esparto and Winters. A large contingent marched down Putah Creek and emerged at the Whole Earth Festival, machine-gunning dancing festival-goers, gang-raping women, then killing them and mutilating their bodies. Setting some on fire, burning them alive. All ages, all genders, anyone who resided beyond the wall. You knew personally some of the victims. One was your close friend.

Local police responded but were overwhelmed. Travis Air Force base couldn’t get its shit together, but troops showed up the next day. Rogue agents were eventually rounded up. The US army built up a massive invading force in Healdsburg and Esparto. World opinion weighed down upon California. The troops were ready to invade, and . . .

What did we do? Did we target only leaders? Did we retaliate out of anger? Was everyone inside the wall a enemy in support of the killings? Did we listen to world opinion? Who’s land was it? Who’s land is it? Did those killed outside the wall ‘deserve it’ ? Will those killed inside the wall ‘deserve it’ ? Can they have all their land back? Can we turn back time? What was the original sin? . . . and who are the sinners?

I’ll leave it to you to ponder how you react to each question, and if you can, try to see it from the other side as well. This is a horribly imperfect metaphor quickly crafted and full of holes, and probably stupid. My point is trying to bring the horror and conflict here to our far-too-easy lives in California, also built on the oppression of a people.

We here in Davis cannot possibly make a difference from a simple declaration of ‘cease fire’ or ‘world peace’ from this far away, nor should we have the hubris to think we understand the situation and can bring peace where numerous world leaders have tried and failed. Most of us have little real sense of what it is like to experience an existential threat to you and everyone you know and love.

Many Jewish people I have spoken to since October 7th have a mood about them. I’d call it ‘grim’, even ‘grave’. “There is no good solution” one told me. Solution. There’s that word again. The Holocaust: The Final Solution. Eliminate the enemy. Drive them into the sea. All of them.

Anyone from either side believing in their tribe’s absolute right to the land and the eradication of the ‘other’— they are the problem. Because what is not acceptable is any final solution, any genocide, whichever way that goes. While it may appear that Gaza could not possibly wipe out Israel on its own, all of Israels enemies working together certainly could this time around. Or if someone gets ahold of an anti-aircraft weapon and shoots down a 767 and starts World War III. Or if someone gets ahold of a tactical nuke and floats it in on a raft offshore of Tel Aviv.

The horrible reality is that none of these scenarios are impossible. All it takes is one moment for Israel to again fuck up as they did on October 7th and interpret the intelligence tea leaves through a lens of hubris, and its all over. Somehow, on that day, Israel’s chain-of-command didn’t protect its population from an invasion because they couldn’t believe what their own operatives were telling them — that Hamas did indeed have the ability to pull this off.

At last week’s City Council meeting there was only one person who spoke who could be considered as on the ‘other side’ of those calling for a cease fire. I do not expect this to be the case this Tuesday night. Word will get out, and those representing more perspectives will want to be heard. Emotions run high on this issue, and City Chambers may well become a shit show. The anger created from this meeting may spill out into the community. TV cameras may come to once again view the Davis Spectacle, and as with the recent Oakland city council meeting, the most outrageous/demented speakers will be broadcast nationally, making Davis look foolish. First the snoring ban, then the hubris to believe we can make a difference in solving conflict in the middle east.

And what will ‘we’, Davis, have accomplished? As I said last Tuesday, we all know that the resolution produced will be a watered-down statement that says more nothing than it says something — one that offends both sides in its attempt to offend no one. Already the crowd that dominated last week’s meeting is upset because the two words they wanted in there, ‘cease fire’, is nowhere to be found. We could have hours of discussion on that point alone.

It’s gonna get down to words — including/excluding, the proper buzz words that one tribe uses and the other tribe is triggered by. But what better place than Davis, where we are blessed with the five council members who have each served, hand-picked by US presidents, as international ambassadors to foreign lands, all regular party-goers at Henry Kissinger’s house 😐

While I don’t believe the Council should ever pass a resolution on non-city business, I do believe that general public comment is a place to be heard. By anyone, about anything. Anyone who wasn’t moved by the testimony of the Palestinian speakers last week doesn’t have a soul. Perhaps the City could invite people to speak and assure them a safe place to speak on their views and how they have been affected by the conflict.

But wait! . . . I take back my condemnation of City involvement in international affairs. Perhaps there is a resolution we as a City could pass that damn near everyone could get behind:

“The City of Davis declares that Bibi Netanyahu is an asshole.”

There may be one or two Davis Jews who are still Bibi supporters, but with one pole in Israel giving the Beebes an 8% popularity rating, I doubt there would be much dissension. So, City Council, how about this as an alternate resolution that most everyone in Davis can stand behind?

But seriously, stop taking on global issues and repair the massive linear cracks in the pavement on J Street.  Thank you.

Davisite logo

Did you enjoy reading this article? Then subscribe to the Davisite for free and never miss a post again.

Comments

22 responses to “Davis City Council are FOOLS to Declare a Davis Position on Israel-Palestine (this Tuesday Evening)”

  1. Tuvia ben Olam DBA Todd Edelman

    Even more than usual I am impressed by Alan’s breadth of knowledge (of history and the contemporary), sensitivity and resulting text-action.
    While I did make a phone-in comment about the resolution and suggest that resolutions are good because they can eventually help with awareness in some sense, I.e. if hundreds of cities do it (on any issue) it can reach a critical mass… and that this resolution was expanded (to mention Palestianians in Israeli jails + the West Bank in general where a lot of repression has happened not only since October + to replace “Gaza” with “Palestine”… I prefer that safe-talking space idea, or at least consider both equally-valid. Davis electeds would not be pretending to be great statespeople with this symbolic-until-groundswell action.
    I’ve sort of known Alan for most of time here and just learned more of his family than previously – and I am sure I had cousins who were killed, and my sister-in-law lost a cousin… and I lost great-grandparents to Hitler, and:
    Anecdote no. 1: I recall perhaps 20 years ago (?) my Lebanese friend’s mother – whom I had met in Amsterdam – was visiting Beirut, arriving just before a significant Israeli incursion. And at the same my second cousins lived in northern Israel. It was the first time I consciously knew or was closely related to people who were “officially” fighting each other. How many people outside of diplomats, red cross, probably a lot of people from ex-Yugoslavia and journalists can relate to this? I’ve joked that before people from country A advocate for bombing country B, they should meet counterparts (of their relatives) in the target countries to have a different and perhaps better perspective.
    Anecdote no. 2: When I was in 11th grade or so I had to register for the USA military draft — if I didn’t I risked college financial aid or prison time, perhaps? My mostly pretty liberal father made an awful homophobic joke about what might happen to me in prison… but – either at that time or more recently – I thought about being drafted, going to fight in e.g. Central Europe and then encountering my second cousin from Czechoslovakia in the forest, their AK-47 pointed at me, holding an M-16, pointing at them…. and I did meet some of these cousins eventually….
    Perhaps the most significant omission in Alan’s otherwise excellent non-flammable missive was how the international arms industry drives much of the “Israel Gaza War” fueled – NOT driven – by real and perceived differences in culture and ideology. Indeed, the IDF is testing new weapons in Gaza right now – including an AI that helps select targets – and the Israel-based security and weapons industry will have a big presence at trade shows in the very near future where they will show this new stuff and what it can do. So – in addition to a statement about Bibi – I would have liked something about Davis being somehow a military weapons-maker free-zone! I realize that this is naive, because even if we would end up losing to Woodland or Vacaville etc a development for this kind of company, I know that we’d still have our private neighbors making private profits as shareholders of international arms makers, and that the City Council would never say a thing about THAT.

  2. MarcT

    Replace the activist based self interest focused city council with members who are concerned with city business, not self promotion of their special interests at the expense of taxpayers.
    Another example of the city council not acting in taxpayer interests.

  3. South of Davis

    I have been anti-war my entire life and I don’t understand why my “team blue” friends took down their “War is not the Answer” signs now want more money for bombs in Ukraine. I’m happy that my “team read” friends have taken down the ‘Support our Troops” signs and don’t want “a penny more for bombs in Ukraine” , but I know the minute a “team red” guy is elected they will be back supporting every war (and my team blue friends will be back blocking traffic protesting the next war).
    For anyone that had not read “War is not the Answer” it is a great (short) book that I read as a kid just after the end of Vietnam (a link to the full book in .pdf is below, and if the link has issues you can just Google it)
    https://www.heritage-history.com/site/hclass/secret_societies/ebooks/pdf/butler_racket.pdf
    P.S. To Todd, you didn’t have to register for the draft none of the guys I keep in touch with from High School ever registered and nothing ever happened to them

  4. So, what did the CC decide?

  5. Ron O

    ” . . . but I know the minute a “team red” guy is elected they will be back supporting every war (and my team blue friends will be back blocking traffic protesting the next war).”
    I just support what I’m told to support, by the media. (Referring to team blue, for the most part.) Makes things much easier.

  6. Alan C. Miller

    SofD say: “I know the minute a “team red” guy is elected they will be back supporting every war”
    Trump seemed to avoid war whenever he could, and performed rather unconventional methods of international relations. If Trump were in office conducting the Ukraine and Israeli conflicts exactly as Biden is, he’d be considered a ‘Republican War Monager’. He did build up the military and put more resources into some ongoing conflicts, but Trump didn’t get us into any wars, and that hasn’t happened since Regan. Some of this may be the luck of history. However, my take was the guy did what he could to avoid war.
    Strange a friend was lamenting about how Biden was supporting current wars, and lamented that maybe it would have better if Hillary were in office. I guess they didn’t read Hillary’s statements about Israel-Palestine.
    No I didn’t vote for Trump. I also don’t condemn an action because of who did it; rather I condemn the action, and I give credit where credit is due. You can google Trump and war, and the sources you believe will tell you what you want to hear. Good luck, Jim.

  7. Alan C. Miller

    RM ask: “So, what did the CC decide?”
    They added in ‘cease fire’. They also added back in ‘numbers of those killed on each side’, which Will Arnold asked to be taken out, wisely, because he said the numbers will change and we want this to be a Davis Policy, not a snapshot in time. And to me it also pits one human tragedy against the other by numbers, rather than as human tragedies with their own unique causes and circumstance.
    There were so many people wanting to speak that at the start of the meeting Chambers were full. About 20 people were in the hall, and another 30 outside, plus some gave up and left. Testimony was three hours, and then when they return they announced there was another hour of recorded testimony. I went home, had dinner, and returned, listening to recorded testimony through my iPhone.
    About 3/4 of those speaking requested the words ‘cease fire’. It was clearly an organized campaign, and indeed there is a national movement to bring these words to City Councils throughout the country. As might be expected, the resolution is succeeding in mostly blue cities.
    Inadvertently, the City Council kinda-sorta opened a forum for people to be heard with differing opinions. I came for this reason. I listened to everyone, for those few gems of wisdom, or those sharing something unique, for a personal experience of what the war has been to them or those they know. But mostly it was talking points, subtle anger, and hammering the words ‘cease fire’.
    But the constructive part was accidental, not intentional. The City Council blew it because, being framed on words from a political movement to pass these resolutions, most of the comments were on the resolution and the two words rather than hearing each other and increasing understanding.
    ‘Cease Fire’ is a dog whistle, and it means supporting one strategy, one that many aren’t certain is the best strategy in leading to a long-term ‘peace’, if peace is even possible, and God I hope it is. To insert ‘cease fire’ is to say #wink-wink# the Davis City Council supports your strategy, and back-handedly says poo poo to those concerned that ending the war now will likely only strengthen Hamas, a group that has vowed to continue October 7th-style attacks on Israel and continue to work towards their stated goal of destroying Israel.
    The City Council also called for resolution through ‘diplomacy’. I don’t have the typing fingers to go through the history of attempts at diplomacy and what that has wrought, but it does highlight the unicornian limitations of council resolutions.
    I think the Council really thought they were doing something right, and I don’t think they intentionally took one side, but rather took the ‘it sounds good’ road of calling for ‘peace’. I don’t think there is one of them that secretly hates Jewish people or Muslim people or Palestinian people or intentionally took a side out of bias. I think all of them were truly moved by the depth of anger and pain brought into the room and listened to everyone and all sides. Bapu’s comments were the most substantive and moving to me and worth a listen on the video archive.
    Alan Miller’s comments were stupid.

  8. Thanks for that detailed summary, ACM. It is very much appreciated. What you say toward the end:
    I think the Council really thought they were doing something right, and I don’t think they intentionally took one side, but rather took the ‘it sounds good’ road of calling for ‘peace’.
    I think that is actually true of a lot of people. They think ceasefire is a no brainer — who wouldn’t want that? Or they have a very one-sided view of what has been happening, a common problem on “both sides.”
    You note that ceasefire means supporting one strategy, one that many aren’t certain is the best strategy in leading to a long-term ‘peace’
    Bingo. So many people think that it is. So many experts in Davis on Middle East policy. Who knew?
    if peace is even possible, and God I hope it is.
    Of course, I do too. I would hope we all want that. But people are conflating ceasefire with peace, unfortunately.
    And then I especially want to thank you for this comment, pointing out a phenomenon that seems to happen all too often, but most people miss it: it also pits one human tragedy against the other by numbers, rather than as human tragedies with their own unique causes and circumstance.
    Bingo again. Let’s not bean count human lives, shall we?
    ACM showed up knowing he would be in the minority. That always gets points in my book, even when I disagree (although clearly this is not one of those times).

  9. Ron O

    Maybe the council can take a stand against the violence which occurs in THIS country.
    Places like Oakland, Richmond, Stockton, etc.
    Pretty sure that a proclamation would take care of that.

  10. Alan C. Miller

    “Maybe the council can take a stand against the violence which occurs in THIS country.
    Places like Oakland, Richmond, Stockton, etc.”
    Yeah, call for a ‘cease fire’ in Oakland. See how far you make it down the road.
    I had to go back to Oakland THREE TIMES to report a felony committed on me (a car purposefully came up alongside me and physically scraped my bike, inches from my leg, then stopped in front of me diagonally – I got the license number AND I got the fuck outa there). They said it was a felony, and therefore I had to report it in person, but waiting all day long in Oakland for THREE DAYS to make the report, because every time I went they said everyone was busy with a shooting. All day. For three days.
    When I finally reported it after a supervisor finally went around procedure, the cops were extremely nice and took my report, said to call if I saw the car. I immediately biked three blocks to the meth camp on the corner of Grand and Mandela and saw the car parked there with someone standing next to it, and attempted to call it in. I was on hold for 2-1/2 hours before I could report the location of the car. I went back to the meth camp three times over the next month and the car was still there.
    Oakland was changing before Covid-19 and was one of my favorite places. Congratulations, you have succeeded. In defunding the police, and turning yourself into a self-made, Shithole City.

  11. Alan C. Miller

    RM say: “So many experts in Davis on Middle East policy. Who knew?”
    Strange you should bring that up. There was an obnoxious professor from UCD who self-declared herself an expert on the Middle East, but I knew we were fucked when she said she was going to tell us the ‘truth’. I’ll get a time stamp later, but she’s easy to find as she’s the last live speaker. She popped up just after Will shut down public comment and Will let her speak — and she went on for 3-1/2 minutes!!!
    In case you didn’t know, because of the number of speakers, Will declared a limit of 1-1/2 minutes, and most of the the many dozens of speakers held close to that. How far up your own ass does you head have to be to think that because you are an ‘intellectual academic’ and that you are so learn-ed that your opinion matters more than anyone else’s? And therefore you can just keep going after being asked to stop. People like her are what give academics a bad name.
    Oh I take it back, my bad. She had really really really truthy truth 😐

  12. Plenty of people have trouble with the idea that since it’s a public space and people have limited time and capacity, they need to rein it in — that’s not limited to academics. We’ve all seen it at City Council meetings — the person who goes on and on and won’t stop even after they’ve been called out — actually, we’ve seen this both from councilmembers and commenters. Too bad so many folks felt they had to recite their boilerplate, overwhelming those with actual stories to share.
    I do think there are genuine experts on the Middle East, but of course, being an expert on the Middle East has many facets: history, present-day situation, political situation, military situation, military tactics. To be able to come to the conclusion “we need a ceasefire,” you at least need to be well-versed in the last four (and arguably all five). Who is expert in all four? Probably no one. That’s why government leaders need advisors. And that’s why a situation as complex as this should not be the purview of a city council. Hey, but I hear that all the cool cities are doing it.
    Don’t get a time stamp on my account. I think I can find something else to do with 3 1/2 minutes.

  13. South of Davis

    I have had my Davis City Service bills on auto pay for years and recently called the city asking how to go to “paperless” billing (like almost all my other bills) since I could not find a link to do it online.
    Since the (supposedly “green”) city has been so busy with things like votes on ceasefires in the middle east (and location of Ghandi statues) they have not had the time to do it so they print (and pay for postage) to mail out thousands of paper bills to people that don’t want them.

  14. Sue Greenwald

    Your hypothetical about Native Americans trying to retake California isn’t cogent. Native Americans were granted full citizenship with equal rights, sometimes with land as well, and often with substantial compensation such as lucrative casino rights. Plus, we acknowledge that they suffered a grave injustice, and honor them. California eliminated Columbus Day out of respect for Native American sensibilities and instituted an Indigenous People’s Day. We honor the loss of the Native Americans, such as the Trail of Tears monument. And we acknowledge that all of this isn’t enough and that the damage from the dispossession lasts through generations. If Israel had taken these measures, or other measures equally affirming of Palestinians’ pain and need for normal human rights, then Israel might have a chance of escaping the cycle of violence.
    I see the Native American comparison evoked often by defenders of Israel’s siege and destruction of Gaza, but it isn’t convincing, no matter how it’s employed.
    You write with a tone of neutrality, yet you conclude that Davis shouldn’t take a position on a ceasefire because we shouldn’t have “the hubris to think we understand the situation and can bring peace where numerous world leaders have tried and failed.”
    With logic like this, we couldn’t have opposed the Vietnam War or the Iraq War. It’s incumbent upon citizens to have the “hubris” to stand against war and against genocidal assaults because, contrary to your assertions, mass citizen opposition is the only thing that can stop them.

  15. Ron O

    Good to hear from Sue Greenwald.
    Regarding Native Americans, anyone born in this country qualifies as one. No one in my family has any connection whatsoever with the homelands or peoples of our ancestors. The people responsible for my existence are mostly dead now, to boot.
    Nor do I claim that those countries “owe” me anything. (It’s more than “one” country, anyway.) In fact, they were fighting each other during WWII. (Reminds me of Ukraine fighting Russia.)
    I’m also not sure why some support unlimited illegal immigration into the U.S. these days, while simultaneously trashing the “original” illegal aliens (from Europe and elsewhere) – before there really even was a country or large population.
    Not to mention the fact that California was “owned” by the Spanish and Mexican governments. You want to blame someone? Blame them, if it makes you feel better.
    Regarding Israel – it exists (though it was created much more recently than the U.S.).
    My “advice”? Get over it. Better still, join them (and be successful, rather than continuing to live in the current situation).

  16. South of Davis

    A few questions for Sue:
    1, Does she want the US to stop sending weapons to Ukraine?
    2. Does she think that even a single person in Hamas or the IDF know about the Davis ceasefire vote (and if yes that anyone in Hamas or the IDF are now working toward a ceasefire as a result of the Davis city council vote)?

  17. Keith

    “Does she think that even a single person in Hamas or the IDF know about the Davis ceasefire vote (and if yes that anyone in Hamas or the IDF are now working toward a ceasefire as a result of the Davis city council vote)?”
    A little birdie told me that Netanyahu was reading the Israeli Times yesterday and was overheard saying “Oh Fuck, the Davis City Council voted for a ceasefire”.

  18. For those who subscribe to the Davis Enterprise, the following op ed is well worth a read:
    https://www.davisenterprise.com/forum/commentary-council-comes-up-short-on-facts-action/article_6f724d9c-9b71-11ee-8d9d-4b5e96e25c34.html
    It outlines very clearly what was wrong with the Davis City Council’s decision.

  19. Alan C. Miller

    Or it outlines very clearly what was wrong with the Davis City Council ever taking this up in the first place.

  20. Ron O

    Truth be told, I think it indicates what’s wrong with “the public” that they somehow feel a need to express this – knowing that it makes no difference, and knowing that there’s all kinds of wars/conflicts occurring throughout the world (all the time).
    And that the Israel-Palestinian conflict has been ongoing since before most of us were born. (Perhaps the biggest reason that I’ve disassociated myself from it.)
    What’s so special “this time”? (Unless you have relatives there, I guess.) Well, I guess it’s a significant escalation, so maybe that’s why. Pretty shocking attack on that music festival.
    My guess is that Hamas underestimated Israel’s response, and figured that they could generate support when innocent civilians and hostages get killed. But it doesn’t seem likely that this strategy will work – not when Hamas launched an attack like that in the first place.
    Countries that are run by violent factions always cause their own civilians the most damage, assuming that they’re on the losing end of subsequent military response. Regardless of support for, or against those governments.
    People are really not as far removed from other animals as they like to think. It’s easy to forget that, when you live in a relatively-peaceful environment.
    In any case, take it up with your Congressional representatives, instead of the “foreign policy experts” on the council.
    And by the way, why is it that the Democrats have now gotten the U.S. indirectly (or even directly) into two wars, simultaneously? With a possible third on the horizon, in regard to Taiwan? I thought they were the “peace party”, no?

  21. ACM writes, “Or it outlines very clearly what was wrong with the Davis City Council ever taking this up in the first place.”
    Exactly. As I have said before, too many complexities, too many uncertainties, too much information lacking, etc., etc.

Leave a reply to MarcT Cancel reply