Davisite logo
Davisite Banner. Left side the bicycle obelisk at 3rd and University. Right side the trellis at the entrance to the Arboretum.

<

>

Al’s Corner – September 2023

image from www.sparkysonestop.com

This volume of Al's Corner is dedicated to the celebration of the Davis Vanguard's National Issues Open Discussion Page.  Of course, this page isn't open to me, or several other banned people.  Nor, in practice, is it a discussion.  Let's do some stats and declare a winner:

"Winner!": 

Walter Shwe — 53 posts  (Status:  Active)

Runners Up:

David Greenwald — 10  (Status: Appears to have abandoned the page)

Keith Olson — 9  (Status: Appears to have abandoned the page)

Don Shor — 1  (Status: Appears to have abandoned the page)

Dave Hart — 1  (Status: Appears to have abandoned the page)

The last 36 posts in a row have been from Walter Shwe.  Since August 26th, over a week ago, the only posts have been from a single person.  Guess who.  But the topper, of all the toppers, is this post from today:

Walter Shwe

This post and page just keeps giving and giving. I love it.

Let us all wish the Davis Vanguard continued success on it's Open National Issues page.

Al's Corner September is ready & open for business on any & all topics, within the confines of the minimal "rulez" posted.  If you are posting about the Library Issue, please continue posting on that open thread.  I have a feeling that one is going to go on for a long time  😐

Posted by

Alan C. Miller

on

in

, , , ,
Davisite logo

Did you enjoy reading this article? Then subscribe to the Davisite for free and never miss a post again.

Comments

94 responses to “Al’s Corner – September 2023”

  1. J.J. Surbeck

    Good analysis. [name removed] is an [insult removed] extreme-left [insult removed] who apparently enjoys being read by – essentially – himself. Good for him. I’ve stopped trying to post anything on the Davis Vanguard given the cumbersome approval (a.k.a. Davis Greenwald’s) process, although to be fair he has eventually greenlighted most if not all my comments.
    On the other hand, I have also stopped trying to post comments on the DavisSite since the requirement here is an absurd approval by the very same writers one would like to comment on or criticize. Conflict of interest, anyone? If you want to increase your credibility and readers’ participation at the same time, get rid of that rule. Too many writers, especially on the left of the political spectrum, have too thin skins to accept that their views might be challenged. Change that policy already.

  2. Roberta L. Millstein

    JJS, irony is not your friend.

  3. Keith

    “Walter Shwe September 4, 2023 at 5:16 am
    This post and page just keeps giving and giving. I love it.”
    What happened to with ketchup and mustard on top?
    Over and Out.

  4. J.J.

    Roberta says “JJS, irony is not your friend.” How perceptive of you. But actually it was more sarcasm than irony. But I understand: my comment struck close to home, didn’t it?

  5. Roberta L. Millstein

    JJS wrote: “my comment struck close to home, didn’t it?”
    Umm, no. I have no interest in your opinion on any topic. That’s what happens when you behave the way that you have behaved on this blog. You have no credibility with me. If changing our policy meant more people who behave like you commenting, then that’s a reason never to change it.
    You seem to have trouble distinguishing between expressing an opinion and making an insult. You think that your comments aren’t getting posted because of your opinions. But that is not the situation.

  6. Ron O

    Quoting Robb Davis: Also, in reference to Tim’s comment about “gimmicky:” that is how Measure J/R/D works. Because it requires a vote of the people, projects lead with a marketing plan that the owners/developers believe will be sufficient to persuade voters.
    Seems to me that the council itself had “no problem” with the gimmicky (and possibly illegal) Davis-connected buyer’s program, at WDAAC.
    There is little discussion about community need, how to achieve greater connectivity, maximizing the limited land, or how to get the highest number of affordable units.
    “Connectivity” to what – other developments on farmland outside of city limits that YOU would like to see?
    As far as “maximizing the limited land” or “Affordable units”, wouldn’t that be (in your words) one of the “gimmicks” that developers can propose to appeal to voters?
    The question merely becomes: how do we get the votes? What will ensure the public’s (50%+1) support?
    Why do you assume that folks want the city to sprawl onto farmland in the first place?
    This is not planning, and Alex is correct, there does not seem to be a forum to have meaningful discussions.
    As opposed to the “expert planning” done by people like yourself?
    As far as a “forum” is concerned, the Vanguard has been trying to undermine Measure J for years, as have some (most?) on the council. The “problem” is that you and the other “usual suspects” are in the minority, but you refuse to accept that fact.
    https://www.davisvanguard.org/2023/09/monday-morning-thoughts-laying-out-a-path-forward-on-housing/#comment-476216

  7. R Keller

    J.J. said “But actually it was more sarcasm than irony.”
    But actually actually, Roberta was referring to you complaining about your comments not being published in the Davisite…in a comment published in the Davisite. So, yeah, irony.

  8. Ron O

    So yesterday, the Vanguard had an article titled “Conservative Former Fox Hosts Seeking to Tackle Housing Crisis”.
    But in looking at the arguments presented, I’m not seeing much (if any) difference between that and what the so-called “progressive” Vanguard/YIMBYs advocate.
    Below are some examples of a couple of “leapfrog/sprawl” developments proposed by these same type of interests:
    “Controversial mega-development with 45,000 homes nears approval in central California”
    “The proposed development in California’s fifth largest city comes amid a nearly $1 billion land grab by Silicon Valley elites who hope to build a utopian city north of the Bay Area.”
    (The one in Solano county reminds me of how Los Angeles ruined Owens Valley.)
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/controversial-mega-development-with-45-000-homes-nears-approval-in-central-california/ar-AA1gkBe4?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=7e479a49e22d419a81e883cb18f4c13c&ei=18
    Also, I periodically receive emails from “Our Neighborhood Voices”, including the one below. This is a group that is opposed to the corporate YIMBYs and their political friends (of which Aguiar-Curry is one of them). The link below is a registration form for a fundraiser, but this group conducts non-fundraising meetings as well.
    Ultimately, power has to removed from the state via a referendum. The only reason that the damage from YIMBYs hasn’t been fully felt yet is due to the housing/economic downturn. Unfortunately, cities/residents are apparently going to have to “suffer” before people get off their keesters in mass.
    But one thing that people don’t seem to recognize is that the YIMBY Democrats are the ones causing the damage, primarily because they’re the ones in power. These folks have essentially declared war on environmentalism and their own cities. The system itself is too corrupt to allow them to retain unbridled control.
    https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_JLaYj3SCTZKxFQM_0PloaA#/registration

  9. Ron O

    Regarding the proposed “California Forever” leapfrog development in Solano County:
    “Some of these groups have connections to the California Forever team behind the new city. Two of the major investors in California Forever, Stripe founders John and Patrick Collinson, donated $1 million to California YIMBY in 2018. Another investor, Nat Friedman, was a co-founder of California YIMBY.”
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/solano-county-new-city-18351062.php
    Folks, does it get any clearer for you than that?
    The entire YIMBY movement is a corporate-funded sham. It’s the same type of interests that led to sprawl in the first place.
    Even the so-called “housing crisis” is a sham. Note how they throw that term around without defining it at all, or what it would take to “solve” it. Apparently, just expecting everyone to take it at face value (and assign their own “meaning” to it?)
    The state has been LOSING population for three years in a row, and is not expected to grow for the next 40 years or so.
    Now, if you want to talk about EXISTING residents, that’s a different issue (and one which can be addressed via rent control, for example).

  10. Ron O

    I’m definitely enjoying the exile from the Vanguard, but I’m still reading the articles (for now). Or at least, skimming them.
    Today’s article is titled “Sunday Commentary: Has the State Been Put on Notice to Fix the Housing Crisis or Lose Control?”. In it, David states the following:
    “Of course, this is what you get when a conservative attempts to solve housing problems—they address the issue on the regulatory end.”
    So again, I ask – how is this different than what folks like David advocate?
    But more-amusingly, David ignores the petition to take back control from the state, by groups such as Our Neighborhood Voices. That’s the REAL parallel to Proposition 13, which David also cites (as follows):
    “All of this is starting to remind me of the lead up to Prop. 13.”
    In other words, David is focusing on a petition which has virtually no chance of succeeding (and has no traction), while ignoring one that at least has a better chance (in a completely OPPOSITE direction).
    David seems to be “out of touch” with what’s actually occurring, regarding the reaction against the state.
    David is correct when he states that the “needle is barely being moved” (regarding the massive amount of housing construction on the level envisioned state officials and their YIMBY supporters), despite the state’s efforts to force it.
    That’s why the RHNA targets will largely fail – statewide.

  11. Alan C. Miller

    RO say: “I’m definitely enjoying the exile from the Vanguard, but I’m still reading the articles (for now). Or at least, skimming them.”
    Enjoying? Reading the articles?
    All of this is sheer pain, not joy. The Vanguard brings evil and pain to Davis.
    I only occasionally read (past tense, and I do mean ‘tense’) the articles, maybe 10% of the time. I used to mostly read the comments, and only if I needed context would I skim the (poorly written, overly long) article.
    But now the comments are down to a dismal, pathetic few.
    Remember when banishing the assholes and establishing rules was supposed to allow for all the scared people to come play in the sandbox ? Well the assholes are gone, and the sandbox has a couple of very very special people in it, playing with sand and a pail and a tiny plastic shovel.
    Except the real assholes aren’t gone, only the perceived assholes.
    And yes, DG is full of shit on this subject. No one is going to Prop. 13 and tax themselves on densifying, sprawling and subsidizing ‘affordable’ housing for developers. People don’t have Prop. 13 reactions that involve increasing their taxes for the ‘good’ of society (in soiled progressive eyes).
    On the contrary, there is going to be a whiplash backlash against the loss of local control of land use. YIMBYs screaming in terror, their dark hearts exposed.

  12. Alan C. Miller

    SUBJECT: “How to Handle Homelessness – Give Them Money”
    Simple 😐
    “Meanwhile, as an indication of how desperate things have become for poor people, dollar stores report rising theft rates…in stores whose goods cost a dollar.”
    Um, but DG keeps running articles that show crime isn’t up. As Rome burns.

  13. Alan C. Miller

    SUBJECT: “Book Banning Bill Now Awaits the Governor’s Signature” [today’s Vanguard!}
    Kendra Smith September 12, 2023 at 9:54 am
    Bigotry and racism in the service of neo-fascism and authoritarianism.
    Or maybe they have different values that you disagree with.
    While white Christians (and in particular evangelicals) held onto the majority of power in this country, they were willing to pay lip service to the idea of a pluralistic, diverse, multi-cultural democracy.
    White Christians. Majority of power. Lip service. Burma shave.
    Now that their power is eroding, they appear to just want to dispense with democracy altogether and force their narrow beliefs on the rest of us–by any means necessary. The rhetoric used recently by such mainstream Republican figures as Mike Huckabee and Ron DeSantis is increasingly violent (“slit their throats on day one,” talking about getting rid of civil servants, and with Huckabee “using bullets instead of ballots.”)
    You have a problem with cutting bureaucracy?
    It is increasingly clear that those aligned with the hard right (and there doesn’t seem to be anything other than that anymore–where are the decent and “normal” Republicans speaking out against this rhetoric or the recent authoritarian activities of their compatriots, such as banning books, trying to re-shape public education to suit themselves when they have always had options to remove their children from objectionable lessons or enroll them in the private religious school of their choice)?
    Wow, most of that paragraph was in parentheses.
    Considering some people (Walter Shwe) consider me a conservative, I’m not sure how such a judgement can objectively be made or challenged. So I won’t.
    I hear nothing from them.
    More should be heard from them. Seriously. And more should be heard from “decent and normal” lefties about the left’s far-left problem.
    People really need to wake up to what is happening all across this country. Organizations like “Moms for Liberty” seem benign, but they are not.
    “Benign” is not the first word that would come to mind with me.
    And, once again, I urge people to read up on Karl Popper’s “Paradox of Tolerance” and educate themselves with regard to fascist and neo-fascist movements, because it’s difficult to see what is happening when you’re effectively a frog in a pot of water that is getting increasingly hotter and building up to a boil.
    I urge people to read up on the evils of Marxism.
    These people need to be shut down.
    They feel the same about you.
    But seriously, what exactly does “shut down” look like in your world ? Considering, since you claim there are only ‘hard right’ you are speaking of 200 million-ish people. How is it you propose to ‘shut them down’ ?
    Also, theyz gotz those bullets Huckabee was speaking of.
    Just sayin’

  14. Ron O

    And more should be heard from “decent and normal” lefties about the left’s far-left problem.”
    You’re not going to hear about that on the Vanguard.
    Perhaps it was always there (e.g., the SLA, the Weathermen, Black Panthers, Zebra killers, etc.), and I just didn’t notice it as much as I do these days.
    “Considering some people (Walter Shwe) consider me a conservative, I’m not sure how such a judgement can objectively be made or challenged. So I won’t.”
    Walter holds “conservative” views himself (regarding climate change / support for motor vehicles, apparent opposition to Affirmative Action, elimination of regulations, etc.).
    For sure, folks like Kendra and Walter are a large part of the overall problem. The really odd part is the “righteousness” they’re so (apparently) convinced is “justified”.
    Ultimately, these are folks which remind me of George W. Bush, when he said “Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” (I initially thought he said, “you’re either with us, or again’t us”.)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_are_either_with_us,_or_against_us#:~:text=Bush%2C%20in%20an%20address%20to,you%20are%20with%20the%20terrorists.%22

  15. Ron O

    By the way, has anyone noticed that the Vanguard’s “peanut gallery” hasn’t commented regarding their “guest article”? Perhaps this is the reason why:
    I’ve even heard “environmentalists” say we need to set aside the CEQA restrictions on building so that new homes, tiny homes, or safe ground can take care of the unhoused.
    What is never, ever, ever mentioned is the possibility that giving homeless people money might be a solution. After all, the U.S. has more empty homes than homeless, and San Francisco has five times the vacancies of its homeless population.
    Perhaps more homes aren’t all they’re cracked up to be as a solution.”
    https://www.davisvanguard.org/2023/09/opinion-how-to-handle-homelessness-give-them-money/

  16. Alan C. Miller

    “I Don’t See Much Progress At All on Housing” – David Greenwald
    “I see dead people” – Haley Joel Osment

  17. Alan C. Miller

    ” . . . has anyone noticed that the Vanguard’s “peanut gallery” hasn’t commented . . . ”
    I resent and resemble that comment. I am part of the Vanguard’s peanut gallery, and I commented. Though, I admit, these days I now participate by throwing peanuts at the window of the Vanguard Office from the outside. Or at least I thought I was, but some lady yelled out the window at me asking what the hell I was doing, and then she said they moved years ago 😐

  18. Ron O

    “I see dead people”
    Apparently doing their part to solve the “housing crisis”.

  19. Alan C. Miller

    SUBJECT: “Open National Issues Discussion”
    Walter Shwe September 12, 2023 at 5:56 pm
    “Ramaswamy is just a Trump clone without the criminal baggage. He is just as the big of a f word as Trump is. I am not referring to the f swear word.”
    What the fuck f-word is WS talking about?
    By the way, we have update on the game score for the ONID comments section participants ‘winners’:
    9/12 UPDATE
    “Winner!”:
    Walter Shwe — 78 posts (up from 53)
    Runners Up:
    David Greenwald — 12 (up from 10)
    Keith Olson — 10 (up from 9)
    Don Shor — 1 (Status: appears to have abandoned the page)
    Dave Hart — 1 (Status: appears to have abandoned the page)
    Can anyone catch Walter Shwe ? He’s ahead of the person in next place by miles !!! What a showing !!!
    Coming in 2024: ONID Pie Charts !!!

  20. Alan C. Miller

    RO: “I see dead people” Apparently doing their part to solve the “housing crisis”.
    As I have pointed out numerous times, the solution to the housing crisis is a much more effective form of Covid-19. The CIA is working on it 😐
    While dead people do help with the housing crisis, especially in large groups, they do take up land, and in the search for Davis land to develop, the Vanguard will no doubt see the absolute waste of land of the cemetery, as San Francisco did a century ago.
    From Wikipedia, Colma, CA: Colma became the site for numerous cemeteries after San Francisco outlawed new interments within its city limits in 1900, then evicted all existing cemeteries in 1912 . . . approximately 150,000 bodies were moved between 1920 and 1941.”
    Since only the ‘privileged’ have space at Davis Cemetery (and dollars to donuts those interned there ‘disproportionately’ represent a particular skin-hue-appearance oft associated with the p-word), how long before the Vanguard calls for a new law to repurpose the cemetery and requiring that all bodies currently there be cremated ? And the cemetery replaced with ‘dense’, ‘affordable’ housing, of course.
    For the living.
    (and built by Vanguard sponsors 😐 )
    How long?

  21. Ron O

    “As I have pointed out numerous times, the solution to the housing crisis is a much more effective form of Covid-19. The CIA is working on it :-|”
    The ageing of the population is even more-effective, and (unlike Covid) the result is “100% guaranteed”. This is also a primary reason why California is not expected to grow over the next 40 years.
    But as far as cemeteries (in general) are concerned, these may increasingly be viewed in a manner similar to golf courses. In other words, “discouraged” – especially as other forms of ahem “disposal have become more popular. (I haven’t actually looked into this, but it seems likely.)
    Yeap – every once-in-awhile, they dig up someone in San Francisco who wasn’t “moved” to Colma.
    https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Mystery-girl-found-in-coffin-beneath-SF-home-is-11134115.php
    In one of San Francisco’s parks (Buena Vista Park), broken-up headstones were used to build rain gutters. (I believe these were created by the WPA.) You can still see partial inscriptions on some of them to this day, though I suspect that most of them were installed “face-down” regarding the inscriptions. Others were used as “breakwaters” (e.g., in the Marina district).
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/buena-vista-park-tombstones

  22. Ron O

    Today’s Vanguard article (titled “A Wake Up Call”) represents a new low for that blog.
    Seems to me that the Vanguard (and others) are attempting to build support by stirring up hatred and paranoia.
    I’m “this close” to including the Phoenix Coalition regarding that assessment. Which is a shame, since its original purpose was valid.
    At this point, I’m almost ready to support Moms for Liberty myself. Not because I necessarily support their goals – it’s just that I increasingly don’t like the “other side”.

  23. Keith

    Ron, I agree, that was one disgusting article in Wednesday morning’s Vanguard.

  24. Ron O

    “SF leaders to propose $300 million housing bond for March 2024 election”
    (I would have titled this, “$300 million reasons why SF won’t meet the state’s housing targets.”)
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/sf-leaders-to-propose-300-million-housing-bond-for-march-2024-election/ar-AA1gIkUd?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=25308e84b9f94591ab175b2e662edf1c&ei=13

  25. Ron O

    Title of today’s article in the Vanguard:
    “My View: Building Housing Near Jobs Is Imperative for the Climate Crisis”
    Housing already exists near jobs, in places like the Bay Area. But they’re abandoning it in droves, as are a lot of the jobs.
    What folks like David advocate is the creation of sprawl for them in far-flung places like Davis and the rest of the Sacramento valley.

  26. Ron O

    From article referenced above:
    Richard McCann: “The only effective way of reducing those emissions will be getting the jobs/housing balance right. The problem is that the higher paying jobs are out of town so locals who are wealthier commute there, and those working at lower paying local jobs can’t afford to live here so they commute from elsewhere. The answer is (1) to increase the number of higher paying jobs locally so locals will work here and those from outside will have enough income to afford housing here and (2) to increase the housing supply of lower priced homes so that those with lower paying jobs can afford to live here.”
    Or, those (supposedly) working at “higher paying jobs” elsewhere could just move there – assuming that they even need to be in the office in the first place these days.
    But given that your stated goal is to lower housing costs, what would happen to those costs if the number of “high-wage” jobs increased?
    One alternative is to stop subsidizing lower-wage employers (e.g., by providing government subsidized housing for their employees). Thereby providing an incentive to raise wages (or set up shop where low-wage employees already reside).
    Another alternative is to stop making up absurd “problems” in support of sprawl. But I realize that this alternative is “off the table” in regard to the handful development zealots on the Vanguard.

  27. Ron O

    For those who want to view this video (I think about 15 minutes long), I’d like to hear your thoughts regarding Matt Walsh’s claim that alcohol/drug abuse and mental illness are what “cause” homelessness, and not the other way-around.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOU_d0Tllb8

  28. Ron O

    One more for you:
    “Taking the word of a couple of students over the professional integrity of a seasoned educator is damaging to the relationship between all parties involved,” she wrote in an email to her principal and the superintendent on February 8.”
    “Professional integrity”, vs. “ignorant students” – is that the claim?
    I have no problem with presenting “controversial” subjects (at the high school or college level, at least) as long as the teacher does not “require adherence” to their views.
    I also fundamentally don’t care if a teacher “trusts” her students. She is serving them (and by extension – their parents), not the other-way around. Yet another concept that some teachers seem to misunderstand.
    https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/her-students-reported-her-for-a-lesson-on-race-18373403.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight

  29. South of Davis

    Since DG does not comment on the Davisite I’ll review it with my DG hat on.
    Not even worth watching since it is a video from a far right fascist racist homophobe who does not even know what a Woman is (DG often starts by calling any person to the right of Nancy Pelosi and news source to the right of the WaPo fascist, racist and homophobe). We all know that 99% of the homeless are sleeping on the streets since they got a rent increase from an evil landlord since we don’t have enough taxpayer subsidized apartments (it is only 1% of the homeless that steal bikes and cause problems around the Respite Center near a Vanguard Moderator’s Business). The only way to end “homelessness” is to allow building of more homes and apartments and subsidized apartments (Vanguard advertisers building more million dollar homes and $3,000/month apartment is the only solution since only 1% of the homeless have any issues and 99% are just hard working people looking for a nice taxpayer subsidized apartment on a street of million dollar homes like the one DG lives in)…

  30. Keith

    “alcohol/drug abuse and mental illness are what “cause” homelessness, and not the other way-around”
    I agree with Matt Walsh.

  31. Ron O

    The interesting part of that video is how Matt Walsh notes what occurred when the homeless “were” provided with housing (e.g., Project Roomkey).
    In other words, housing didn’t “solve” the problems, and in some ways – made it worse.
    SOD is right, however, in that some folks only focus on the “messenger” rather than the “message”. That approach is ultimately what leads to purposeful political division.
    Similar to focusing on Moms for Liberty, rather than the issues brought up.

  32. Keith

    “Similar to focusing on Moms for Liberty, rather than the issues brought up.”
    That is dead on target Ron. There are 130,000 mothers who are members of M4L yet their detractors will focus on a few who might have said something distasteful when it doesn’t represent the group as a whole. That can be said of any large group regardless of their political affiliations.

  33. Ron O

    Today’s Vanguard housing article: Commentary: Housing Crisis Will Not Be Solved by Population Decline – Just the Opposite
    Despite the title, David himself noted that rents have been dropping as a result of the population decline – in the article itself no less.
    Aren’t “high rents” the problem to be “solved” in the first place? What exactly is the “opposite” that David is supposedly trying to address?
    Only a true development activist would view decreasing rents as “bad news”.
    Of course, David was also of the opinion that adding thousands of (claimed) jobs at DISC would not make any difference regarding local demand for housing, either. (Or so he said.)

  34. Ron O(K) Boomer

    “There are 130,000 mothers who are members of M4L yet their detractors will focus on a few who might have said something distasteful when it doesn’t represent the group as a whole. That can be said of any large group regardless of their political affiliations.”
    Yeap.
    Hell, every one of us has said something “distasteful”.
    Sometimes, on a daily basis!

  35. Keith

    Ron, I see you’re still living rent free in DG’s mind even though you have been banned from his blog. You’re not mentioned by name but IMO it’s obvious both of these comments are referring to you.
    “For years, some of our anti-housing commenters have argued that there is no housing crisis in California. They point to declining populations and projections that show at most a flatlining of residential growth over the next few decades.”
    And then there’s Shwe:
    Walter Shwe September 19, 2023 at 5:34 am
    This Los Angeles Times article brought a smile to my face while I read it. It conclusively demonstrates that NIMBYs, especially one in particular, are nothing more than frauds when they utilize misinformation in futile attempts to undermine new housing proposals and developments.

  36. Roberta L. Millstein

    SOD is right, however, in that some folks only focus on the “messenger” rather than the “message”. That approach is ultimately what leads to purposeful political division.
    Similar to focusing on Moms for Liberty, rather than the issues brought up.
    Is that like folks who focused on (completely speculative) claims that climate marchers drove cars to the march, or that some of them chose to chalk a sidewalk, rather than focusing on the issues that they raised as part of a global day of action that literally tens of thousands of people participated in?
    Was that focusing on the messenger rather than the message? (Hint: the answer is “yes.”)

  37. Ron O

    I dunno, Roberta. But what I do know is that a lot of those concerned about the climate don’t seem to realize how dependent modern society is on fossil fuels (and products made from oil).
    Even bicycles depend upon roads (and we know what those are “made” of). Not to mention the creation of bicycles, themselves.
    Virtually every aspect of modern society is dependent upon oil and other greenhouse-gas emitting sources. Concrete itself is only one “concrete example”.
    So I never really know (specifically) what climate protestors have in mind, or what they themselves are doing about it. Or even “can” do about it.
    I also know that it’s “hopeless” unless population itself levels off (or declines). Especially as developing countries “develop”.
    Reminds me of saving water, so that some (additional) development can then be built. Somehow, I’m not “inspired” by that.

  38. Ron “Charlatan” O

    “Ron, I see you’re still living rent free in DG’s mind even though you have been banned from his blog.”
    Yes, I noticed that as well.
    “For years, some of our anti-housing commenters have argued that there is no housing crisis in California. They point to declining populations and projections that show at most a flatlining of residential growth over the next few decades.”
    I was probably out tearing-down/demolishing houses, when David wrote that.
    “This Los Angeles Times article brought a smile to my face while I read it. It conclusively demonstrates that NIMBYs, especially one in particular, are nothing more than frauds when they utilize misinformation in futile attempts to undermine new housing proposals and developments.”
    I prefer the word “charlatan”, over “fraud”. Sounds more high-class. By the way, is that what they call people who live in Charlotte or Charlottesville?

  39. Keith O(K) Boomer

    “Was that focusing on the messenger rather than the message? (Hint: the answer is “yes.”)”
    Yes, I can accept this. Both sides do it. I did write “That can be said of any large group regardless of their political affiliations.”
    Though also please note, I didn’t refer to you in any snarky terms.

  40. Roberta L. Millstein

    So I never really know (specifically) what climate protestors have in mind, or what they themselves are doing about it. Or even “can” do about it.
    We’re going to shift to talking about the issues now? Ok.
    If only the press release had included a link for more information (plus all the press releases before the event)…. oh wait, they did.
    “This time we are marching for 2 reasons. We insist Biden declares a climate emergency and demand that Newsom ends fossil fuel permits immediately.” And see the link in the article for more info.
    Agree or disagree with those 2 goals — I don’t care. Here I only point out the irony of y’all dismissing some really bad actors from M4L while just the other day you’re all carping about some chalk and a few people who possibly drove a car to a march. Focus on the issues, eh? Start with yourselves.

  41. Alan C. Miller

    RO say: “Even bicycles depend upon roads (and we know what those are “made” of).”
    Ass Fault, I believe. Which is my new nickname.

  42. Ron “Gas Stove” O

    “This time we are marching for 2 reasons. We insist Biden declares a climate emergency and demand that Newsom ends fossil fuel permits immediately.” And see the link in the article for more info.”
    Those proposals would be worth exploring in depth. (Guilty as charged?)
    Another idea: “Horde” extra cars, to prevent someone else from driving them more that you. (Reference to another comment some time ago, on a different blog.)
    But I think we may “already have a wiener”, regarding nicknames on here (Ass Fault).

  43. Keith

    You say:
    “Focus on the issues, eh? Start with yourselves.”
    As you write:
    “Here I only point out the irony of y’all dismissing some really bad actors from M4L”
    Focus on the issues please.

  44. Alan C. Miller

    I’m going by DJ Ass Fault now. I play in front of the Artery on the closed section of G Street, all day every day. I just play one song, a 4-4 THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP bass beat at the rate of the heart of a so-called homeless person on a fresh hit of meth laced with fentanyl. The song never stops, except every 17 minutes it skips one beat, and every 53 minutes it skips two beats in a row.
    And yes, I agree with Walsh on this particular issue, although I think he’s an asshole and I don’t sync at all with the strict right-wing Christian root of his values.

  45. Ron O

    Regarding Matt Walsh, I do think he brings up some additional valid points of conversation, at least.
    One being “when does life begin”? (A different question than abortion, itself.)
    The other being, “what is a woman” (or man)?
    I also like his “Am I the a-hole” bit (and relationship “advice”), in which he gleans questions from other sources like Reddit. The reason being that it’s a comedy bit, in which he often concludes that “everyone” is the a-hole, and that everyone should break-up with their partner.
    A true curmudgeon. I almost think he’d like to join me in tearing down/demolishing houses (though I suspect he’s on the “opposite side” of that issue).
    And yes, he is also the “a-hole”, but half the time – for “amusement purposes only”. I don’t take him entirely seriously, and I do sometimes get tired of the vilification he engages in.
    Plus, he doesn’t seem to have an “answer” for those who aren’t religious. Other than they “should” be, I suppose.

  46. Roberta L. Millstein

    Keith says, “Focus on the issues please.”
    Sure, I’m happy to. But as one of the people running the Davisite, I’m going to point out when there are a series of off-topic comments. I tried to do that the other day, only to find y’all complaining today about the same thing that you were just doing. Yeah, I’m going to point that out in the hope that y’all stop doing it in the future. Then yes, let’s get back to the issues.

  47. Keith

    “I’m going to point out when there are a series of off-topic comments.”
    I have no problem with that as long as off topic comments are also pointed out even when you happen to agree with the off topic commenter.

  48. Roberta L. Millstein

    I’ll do my best. But in fact, a friend is no long speaking to me and no longer commenting on this site because I did that. It makes me sad, but there it is.

  49. Keith

    This is something we ran into on another blog. The deletion of supposed off topic comments were mostly only administered to one side of the conversation. I think you can guess which side.
    But I have a question for you, is pointing out things that actually occurred at the climate march actually off topic?

  50. South of Davis

    RM wrote:

    This time we are marching for 2 reasons. We insist Biden declares
    a climate emergency and demand that Newsom ends fossil fuel
    permits immediately.”
    I guessing that everyone at the “climate march to end fossil fuel” uses fossil fuels every day (even the people that rode bikes to the event have oil on their chains and grease in their wheel hubs) so pointing this asking people to realize that the “messengers” are asking others to do something they are not doing” (and to cut them some slack they are asking people to do something that is close to impossible without a crazy amount of money). Newsom may “end fossil fuel permits in CA” and that will just make fossil fuels even more expensive in CA and push more poor people out of Davis
    https://www.zillow.com/home-values/51659/davis-ca/
    and other expensive areas of the state where the majority of the (mostly) well educated “climate activists” live. Things are going well for me so I don’t really care that gas $1/gallon more in CA than NV and if the price of gas doubles it won’t change my life at all (I paid over $6/gallon in Tahoe over Labor Day and saw it is over $6/gallon at the Richards Shell today as I was heading north from “South of Davis”). We have a family friend in her late 70’s that lives in a paid off home with low Prop 13 taxes that is getting killed by high energy costs (and high food costs since farmers use fossil fuels to farm and truckers use fossil fuels to get the food to Davis) . My wife’s Ivy League classmates are almost all involved with some kind of “climate activism” and buy “climate credits” for their (frequent) travel, but since they are worth millions they never think about energy cost. If replacing a power plant with a $100 million dollar solar farm that doubles PG&E rates and banning all oil pumping in the doubles the price of gas it will hurt a lot of poor and middle income people without really doing anything to change the “global climate” (or even the climate in CA).