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Vanguard Bias and Censorship Leads Another Longtime Commenter to Quit the Site

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39 responses to “Vanguard Bias and Censorship Leads Another Longtime Commenter to Quit the Site”
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In reference to the article above, below are a couple of the comments that the Vanguard declined to post (in bold text). These were made in response to Ron Glick’s comment, though the first one actually addresses Sharla’s comment.
Again, the point is not whether or not you agree with me – the point is that the Vanguard is not allowing these responses (in bold text).
Does anyone on the Davisite believe that the bolded comments violate Vanguard policy?
Ron O August 30, 2023 at 9:11 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Iโm saying that comments like this (from Sharla) are dangerous and repulsive:“Beth Bourne is obviously associated with these threats. It was her invited speaker who exacted revenge by attacking our community on national conservative TV, targeting specifically the staff of our popular library. Beth gleefully posted the multiple news articles from right-wing media outlets that picked up the story, furthering the reach and stirring the pot. She is the Chair of the Moms for Liberty โ Yolo branch. She is responsible for actions that prompted and unleashed these threats on our community.”
Ron G, quoting me: โIf thereโs a responsible party for inflaming the situation, itโs the library itself. They should issue an immediate apology, with a promise to not let this happen again (regarding their regional manager).โ
Ron G’s response: “So you are actually arguing that if someone violates someone elseโs first amendment rights it justifies bomb threats that repeatedly close the library and disrupt the school day of more than 1000 children because no apology has been issued. Wow, that is deplorable.”
Ron O August 30, 2023 at 9:13 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
You quoted my comment, and then inserted your own interpretation.
I stand by my comment 100%. -
Wow. What a coincidence that you should quit today.
I established the “Alan Miller Institute of Fuck Off” last night at 11:07pm. The Alan Miller Institute of Fuck Off has declared the Davis Vanguard “A Left-Wing Extremist Organization”, run by persons with shit-for-brains. -
Hi Ron O.
I’m not sure how to reach you, but I’d like to say hi, and thanks.
Beth.Bourne@sbcglobal.net (others can reach me here too) -
Thanks, Beth. I may reach out to you, but I’m not sure how involved I want to be at this point.
My issue isn’t necessarily about the “trans” issue itself; it’s about the right to describe someone as a “man” or a “woman” (in a meeting about this very issue) without some authority figure shutting it down – citing policies and laws which don’t exist. (And if they actually did exist, would likely be thrown out by a court.)
I’m also concerned that the library has apparently not made any statement disavowing what their regional manager said/did.
I also don’t like seeing you personally attacked, for expressing your views. -
The Vanguard’s rules seem to change often. What was allowed yesterday might not be allowed today. As an example I had comments deleted for using the term “biological males”. When I pointed out that the Vanguard itself had posted articles with that term I was told they had now changed the rules. WTF? In Monday’s press briefing at the White House the term was used. But evidently you can’t use that term at the Vanguard and the Davis public library. So much for free speech when someone can arbitrarily decide a term like “biological male” can no longer be used. What words or terms will the word police try and ban next at their behest? That’s not how free speech works. I hope M4L sues the Davis library.
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Personally, I don’t think that M4L should have even obliged the librarian by adding “biological” in front of “male”.
Unlike the Vanguard, libraries cannot censor speech that they simply “don’t like”.
At this point, I feel like going into the library just to sing the opening jingle from Two-and-a-Half-Men.
Still no apology from the library that I’m aware of, at this point. Nor any admonishment from any local governmental agency. (In fact, at least one person on the council itself seemed to participate in the hate-mongering against M4L via implication – which was entirely predictable from that body of government.)
Any moment now, I halfway expect the chancellor of UCD to join in.
People (including, or perhaps even especially those who work for government agencies) seem to consistently forget that it’s not about whether or not you “like” the message. And in fact, it’s the messages that are often not liked (within a given community) which need the most protection. -
Though in all fairness, no local official specifically singled out M4L for derision that I’m aware of.
Neither did they come to their defense (or defense of the First Amendment). -
We have a cancer in America where people either have to “get with the party line or be punished”. ย David wants to be part of the Davis Progressive crowd and does not want them protesting in front of his (taxpayer subsidized) home so he will do what he needs to do (even if that means posting to a site with no readers or commenters) ย It is not just the left that does this if you are are right wing cop (or indian ranger) that does not look the other way when co-workers do bad stuff you will have even bigger problems than a few trans kids protesting in front of your home or office. ย The reason I want to stay anonymous is that there is a lot of evil out there where cops will punish innocent people just because of something someone in their family (or gang) did. ย There are teachers in the Davis public schools who are just as evil who will mess with an innocent kid if he comes from a family that does (or even says) things they don’t like.
P.S. I don’t think we will see cops, teachers librarians or rangers change as long as taxpayers pay for all the lawsuits. It is funny that pretty soon the mainstream US press will just run DNC talking points on their websites (and deliver a handful of papers to people over 70) and the rest of us have to read foreign papers to find out what is going on in America.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12459205/Jessica-Konen-landmark-victory-school-lawsuit.html -
So, I’m curious, is the Davisite going to censor my response to Ron’s post? This could be ironic…
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Richard,
Can you respond to Ron without making a personal attack? -
SOD: You have a point, regarding taxpayers forced to pay to defend against lawsuits brought against public agencies which “misbehave”. This allows the individuals who do so to be personally protected from the ramifications of what they do.
In my opinion, university professors in particular have far too much autonomy. In other words, what they say and do isn’t even under the control of those who hire them:
“I am thankful that every living cop will one day be dead, some by their own hand, some by others, too many of old age #letsnotmakemore” โ tweeted on Nov. 27, 2014.”
“I mean, it’s easier to shoot cops when their backs are turned, no?” โ tweeted on Dec. 27, 2014.”
https://www.abc10.com/article/news/uc-davis-professors-behavior-is-not-ok-under-investigation/103-639b5517-38ec-48d4-8221-22d8032b80f0#:~:text=Joshua%20Clover%2C%20UC%20Davis'%20English,27%2C%202014.
As far as the word “progressive”, folks like David are attempting to redefine what that means, so that they can align themselves with traditionally-conservative development interests without losing the “oh-so-important” label of “progressive”.
Some also then attempt to label those who oppose sprawl, for example as (gasp) “conservative”. They’ll also attempt to apply that same label to those who support the First Amendment.
It’s quite a hat trick. But for me, I find it more amusing than anything else. Probably because those labels have zero meaning to me. -
“So, I’m curious, is the Davisite going to censor my response to Ron’s post? This could be ironic…”
Ironic ? Like ray-eee-aaa-ain on your wedding day ? -
“Richard,
Can you respond to Ron without making a personal attack?”
He used to the Vanguard rules where that was often allowed, depending on who was getting attacked. -
I’m always ready to debate actual issues, with McCann or anyone else.
McCann consistently chooses an approach more akin to Sharla’s comment (cited above).
I believe this is what the Davisite is trying to prevent.
Both of them are more capable than resorting to stuff like that. -
I don’t think anyone (even a college professor) should ever be fired for saying something unless they have been told by their boss that they are not allowed to say that at work (e.g. if an usher at the Davis Regal yells “fire” in a crowded theater I don’t think he should be fired, but I am OK firing him if he won’t stop yelling it).
David needs developer money to pay the bills (and does not seem to realize that less developers are going to give him money if he has just two people reading the side and commenting) . Just like most climate change activists are happy to fly to conferences around the world in private jets David is happy to take developer money. -
SOD: Interesting take, and you have a point (e.g., if a professor says something on social media, wouldn’t that be his right)?
Then again, what if he says something like that in a classroom, in which children of police officers might attend?
Students and professors are not on “equal footing”. It’s more akin to an “employer/employee relationship”.
I once had a professor whom I’m convinced gave me a lower grade on a paper, simply because he didn’t like what I had to say. A report for a book that had significant political overtones.
Other employers do indeed “control” what their employees say during both work and non-work hours. As do corporate backers of franchises (see “Mr. PIckles”.) -
“Mr. PIckles” got a raw deal.
I wonder if the employees who were involved in him losing his business feel any regrets? I frequented that sandwich shop often and always thought he and his employees were nice. -
Apparently, you have to wait until you’re retired (or own your own company) before you can truly engage in “free speech”.
Free speech doesn’t fully extend into the world of employment.
Hence, the effectiveness of “cancel culture”. -
Ron wrote:
Apparently, you have to wait until you’re retired (or own your own
company) before you can truly engage in “free speech”.
If you don’t want to get messed with you can NEVER engage in “free speech”. Just like many (but not all) teachers and professors give lower grades to people they don’t like the many (but not all) that work for the government will mess with you if they don’t like what you have to say. They used to be subtle about it but today most in government don’t care and mess with people they don’t like without any shame (don’t try and misgender anyone as a retired guy at the Davis Library if you don’t want your card de-activated). I’ve been a fan of Matt Tabbi for years and just when I thought out government could not get more corrupt this happened earlier this year (showing that the IRS will even go after a lifelong Democrat that wrote the book “Insane Clown President” about Trump if he does not stick to the “party line” 100%.
https://judiciary.house.gov/media/in-the-news/irs-makes-strange-house-call
P.S. The Richard must be in shock when he found out that Davisite is not like the Vanguard and does not have the “rules don’t apply to anyone going after people say things that are uncomfortable to the Progressive Left rule”. The only people most in Davis hate more than Republicans are people from Woodland and rather than ever tying to answer a question Richard would usually just point out that someone saying something he didn’t like was from Woodland (here in Davis the Progressive Left also loves to point out that anyone they disagree with either didn’t go to college or went to a “lesser” college)… -
If you don’t want to get messed with you can NEVER engage in “free speech”.
True.
don’t try and misgender anyone as a retired guy at the Davis Library if you don’t want your card de-activated).
I think I’d take that (particular) chance.
But what I’d like to know is, why do so many people whom I don’t know address me as “sir”? Seems to me that they’re taking an awfully big risk these days.
“Men Men Men Men Manly Men Men Men” (Two-and-a-Half Men).
Ultimately, it’s employees (including anyone working at a library) who have a lot more to lose. Well, anyone other than perhaps a teacher or university professor. -
Since several people have inquired – Richard McCann never posted a comment responding to Ron, only his comment above suggesting that he thought he would be censored.
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“Richard McCann never posted a comment responding to Ron, only his comment above suggesting that he thought he would be censored.”
Or was it ? Maybe his comment was . . . from the future -
My guess is that (whatever Richard was even thinking), he guessed correctly regarding the “result”.
Maybe we should start censoring people’s thoughts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxTMbIxEj-E -
Excellent news Ron! Bye bye birdie. I hope the next person to quit is Keith Olsen. BTW Alan C. Miller censors just like the Davis Vanguard. ๐
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I’m counting 20 “unresponded-to” comments in a row in the “Open National Issues Discussion” from Walter in the Vanguard right now. The article and comments which essentially consist of “Trump is bad”.
In other words, the article that David believed would generate so much interest that he removed the comment limit.
At least I had my own “peanut gallery” which responded to my comments.
Alan isn’t censoring this article, and neither am I. But unlike the Vanguard, Alan and the other moderators on the Davisite allow comments which adhere to policy. They don’t base such decisions on whether or not they “like” a comment or commenter.
If only the Davis library would do so as well.
Again, one can see the comments that the Vanguard would not post in bold text (in the first comment of this article). I challenge anyone to find any Vanguard policy which would justify that action.
And compare that with what they did allow from Sharla. (I’m not claiming that Sharla’s comments violated policy either, however.) -
“I’m counting 20 “unresponded-to” comments in a row in the “Open National Issues Discussion” from Walter in the Vanguard right now. The article and comments which essentially consist of “Trump is bad”.”
Yes Ron, it’s basically evolved into Shwe talking to himself.
A better title for that discussion maybe should’ve been:
“The Open TDS discussion” -
“Walter Shwe September 1, 2023 at 7:54 am
The sooner the State kicks Davis NIMBYs to the curb the better.”
Ron, it’s not just “Trump is bad” but “NIMBYs are bad” too.
Just ask Shwe… -
WS: “BTW Alan C. Miller censors just like the Davis Vanguard. ๐”
First, it’s creepy when you thumbs-up yourself.
Second, I have never removed a comment of WS. When WS has attacked people directly and personally with no argumentative substance, as per the rules posted, I have removed the name of the person attacked, even if obvious. This serves to keep the content of the post, and shine a bright spotlight on the attacker to expose their true character for all to see.
On several occasions the DV removed completely a post of WS. As his been pointed out numerous times by numerous people, the DV does not follow its own comment policy. Persons who justify lying, censoring and control over open discussion because of the perception of a ‘correct’ party, ideology or set of facts are delusional, whatever ‘side’ they are on. A large group of such people justifying and reinforcing each other’s delusions (see blogs & social media) is dangerous to civil society.
Removing the name of the attacked is not censorship.
Back now to the padded-room/one-person-echo-chamber provided for you so that you can hear the ideas that you repeat echoed back at you. In such an environment you will hear your words repeated back in your own voice so that may be ensured that they are true. -
This blog post is about why Ron is no longer participating in discussions on the Vanguard. However, it is solely from his point of view, which of course is really the only way that it can be described. So he is unlikely to describe what role he might have had in the situation that led to his decision. He’s not discussing an issue here–he’s discussing his treatment and view of how other responded to his actions there. That means that his conduct on the Vanguard site must be discussed in order to provide a more complete picture of the situation.
If the Davisite wants to stick solely to the issues and avoid the introduction of personal behavior issues (which it actually is opening up here by allowing direct criticism of the behavior of David Greenwald and Don Shor), then it should not have allowed this blog post. However, the state that the blog publishers won’t allow for personal attacks when it just published exactly that type of article.
So the choice would seem to be either to take down this blog post because it violates the standards that the Davisite professes, or it allows a direct response that elucidates on Ron’s behavior on the Vanguard website that led to his decision to stop commenting. -
RMc: “This blog post is about why Ron is no longer participating in discussions on the Vanguard. However, it is solely from his point of view, which of course is really the only way that it can be described.”
Yeah, because he wrote it. It’s his point of view.
“So he is unlikely to describe what role he might have had in the situation that led to his decision.”
I can relate because I, too, am in denial. I just don’t know what I am in denial about. Because I am in denial.
“He’s not discussing an issue here–he’s discussing his treatment and view of how other responded to his actions there.”
Which is an issue. I’ve created an entire corner about the same issue. Complete with dancing bears and clowns.
“That means that his conduct on the Vanguard site must be discussed in order to provide a more complete picture of the situation.”
Do tell! I’m sure there will also be discussions on the conduct of other people from those that may see it differently ๐
“If the Davisite wants to stick solely to the issues and avoid the introduction of personal behavior issues (which it actually is opening up here by allowing direct criticism of the behavior of David Greenwald and Don Shor), then it should not have allowed this blog post.”
The Davisite largely exists as an alternative to the other blog because of the ‘behavior’ of the persons you cited. I think, I wasn’t here at the founding. But that’s why I’m here.
“However, the state that the blog publishers won’t allow for personal attacks when it just published exactly that type of article.”
I go into attack mode when posts are deleted without explanation or adherence to their own posted code, I am attacked, or posts are allowed which do not adhere to posted code, and it is clearly along political lines. Yes, they can do what they want, but these is repeated and egregious, so another blog sprung up — one at which no one is trying to ‘run a business’, but rather just chat around the virtual water cooler. Most of these criticisms are about the hypocrisy just stated. If this repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats repeats then people get fed up with those rigging their game and call them out on it, sometimes in not-so-nice terms.
“So the choice would seem to be either to take down this blog post because it violates the standards that the Davisite professes, or it allows a direct response that elucidates on Ron’s behavior on the Vanguard website that led to his decision to stop commenting.”
Have at it. But let’s see if we can keep it on the issue. Maybe the two of you can have it out once and for all and we’ll never have to hear from either of you about the other again.
Ha . . . . . . a man can dream ๐ -
Richard, you are confusing criticism of a persons behavior, which is allowed, with attacks on a person, which is not allowed.
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Why can my ears hear a ringing sound of “but, but, but Ron doesn’t live in Davis, he lives in Woodland.”
I’ve probably read over 90% of Ron’s comments on the Vanguard. Hardly ever did he break any Vanguard rules and I never saw him attack anyone unless they attacked him first. Hence he was just defending himself.
Ron stood up for his convictions and he was tireless. Most of the other commenters held different stances than him especially when it came to development. For that Ron was often unmercifully castigated. Ron was a thorn in their sides and I applaud him for that. -
Thanks, Keith. That’s how I view it, as well.
It’s not just the moderation practices. I’m also tired of responding to the same points, day-after-day (with no acknowledgement, and no change in the arguments put forth).
And without knowing if I’m actually doing any “good” regarding what I advocate.
I don’t want to end up like Bill Marshall, commenting on the Vanguard until shortly before I’m dead. My time (and everyone’s time) is too limited and valuable to do so.
Truth be told, most of my comments were posted on the Vanguard. Sometimes they weren’t (such as the examples I provided in the first comment of this article).
We could have an entire discussion of what IS allowed, and find a lot more “problems” with the Vanguard.
My account has been deleted on the Vanguard, so there’s no way I can comment again without asking them to reinstate it.
Richard is welcome to put forth any complaints of my “behavior”, but I have a few of my own regarding his.
But I think it’s better to stick to actual issues, which is what I’ve always strived to do (at least until someone provokes me). If Richard simply did this, there’d be no problem between us.
Actually, that would be good advice for Walter, as well. -
That the Vanguard appears to have deleted Ron Oโs account without any cause or notice shows exactly what that โleast reliable news sourceโ in Yolo county blog is all about.
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But there is another point I want to make regarding the threat made at the library, since this does relate to the comments that the Vanguard declined to post.
First off, I don’t understand why a threat would be made against a library that’s used by all kinds of people, not just the LGBTQ community.
How does this work, exactly? You call up and say, “I hate XX type of people, therefore I’m calling in to ensure that you inconvenience your entire customer base. That’ll teach you regarding your support of the type of people I hate.”
In the case of the road shutdown to Burning Man, the protestors (at least) had an issue with the “entire customer base” to justify the inconvenience they caused to everyone (in their minds, at least).
Although we don’t know what was actually said in regard to the threat at the library, I can’t help but think of another possibility, however remote:
Every once in a while, some major media news sources will have a lead story (or multiple stories) regarding some “racist” graffiti (or something similar) at a local school.
At which point I almost start laughing in regard to how much “attention” it warrants – given the type of thing that kids of all skin colors do.
And here we are, watching major media sources focus on what some 13 year old kid (or group of kids) decided to do for attention or amusement. As if it was the “Fourth Reich” rising from the dead. That alone provides sufficient “motivation” for kids to do so such things.
Leaving aside all of the actual racist attacks that occur in schools or nearby.
And leaving aside “real” news that occurs throughout the region, country and world.
Lazy reporting, but I guess it sells. -
Colin – though I didn’t request specifically request that they block my account, I did notify them of this article.
But the “message” that they send when blocking accounts seems to be sort of an “FU” type of statement, in regard to its “cheerful demeanor”. I assume this is an automated message, since it appears similar to the ones I’ve received in the past when they’ve “punished” me for violating some rule:
Re: Your account is now blocked!
Hi there,
Your account is now blocked at .:Davis Vanguard:..
If you have any query, please contact us at info@davisvanguard.org.
Best Regards!
(Best regards indeed.) -
So I’ll put forth this final comment (regarding the library issue), unless someone wants to engage here. (A better article to do so than the other one.)
I’ll draw an analogy, regarding how I view the bomb threat (regardless of “who” did it):
Let’s say that the United Nations voted to support a country (let’s just say “Russia”) that an individual doesn’t like. And as a result, that individual calls in a threat to the United Nations.
And let’s assume (for the sake of argument) that the individual made anti-Russian statements when calling in the the threat.
Would that be a threat made to the United Nations (the library), or to Russia (the LGBTQ community)?
I say it’s a threat to the United Nations.
Then again, I probably don’t think like someone who would make such threats. -
RO: “So I’ll put forth this final comment (regarding the library issue), unless someone wants to engage here. (A better article to do so than the other one.)”
Or you could have put it in the open comment thread ABOUT THE LIBRARY ISSUE ….. ๐ -
Alan – I had forgotten about that; didn’t remember until after I wrote that comment.
But as I mentioned to Roberta and Colin, I do like your “open comment thread” about a given subject, as it has more focus that “Al’s Corner” – which could be about nearly anything.


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