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Smoke menace

PastedGraphic-1 5
By Darell Dickey

Polluted air makes me sick.

Every year when the cold settles in I am precluded from working in my yard and taking walks. I cannot participate in outdoor activities due to the air pollution produced from fires lit by Davis residents.

The EPA informs us that burning organic matter releases numerous toxic air pollutants including benzene, formaldehyde, hydrocarbons, and of course fine particles. Smoke can trigger asthma attacks as well as heart attacks, stroke, and heart failure. In my case the smoke from fireplace burning aggravates my autoimmune disease and advances my heart disease. Though many people in Davis suffer serious health risks associated with air pollution, and though the city has declared a Climate Emergency, the City of Davis has no firm rules against fireplace burning.

Instead of treating the toxic smoke appropriately as a health hazard, the City of Davis defines it as a “nuisance,” the same as an over-grown yard or another unsightly condition. And the smoke is considered a nuisance only under limited conditions.

23.01.030 Nuisances. (b) (14)

"The emission into the open air of visible smoke from any residential indoor non-wood pellet-burning appliance or any non-EPA-Phase II certified wood burning appliance or fireplace used for home-heating purposes in such manner or in such amounts as to endanger or tend to endanger the health, comfort, safety or welfare of any reasonable person or to cause unreasonable injury or damage to property or which could cause annoyance or discomfort in the area of the emission.”

My paraphrase:

The toxic air from burning is a nuisance only if it comes from inside a residence (no problem if on the patio or from a business), only if it can be seen (no problem at night), and only if the fire is used for heat (no problem if used for aesthetic reasons). The smoke is not a nuisance as long as it comes from an approved appliance (even if burning trash, un-seasoned or treated wood, plastics, etc).

In a similarly deficient attempt to curtail air pollution, the Yolo-Solano Air Quality Management District (YSAQMD) issues “advisories” to ask people to voluntarily refrain from burning only on those days when the air quality is already poor. The advisory requests:

"Please refrain from burning wood or using fireplaces or wood and pellet stoves. If you are smelling smoke, you're breathing it.”

This short advisory introduces significant confusion. While the Davis ordinance implies that smoke is an annoyance only when it can be seen, the YSAQMD accurately tells us that we are inhaling the toxic air any time we smell it. And while the Davis ordinance exempts pellet burning from any regulation, the YSAQMD accurately implies that these appliances (similar to all combustion appliances) produce an unacceptable level of air pollution.

The Davis ordinance and the YSAQMD advisory use weak and contradictory language to manage air pollution. They prioritize ambiance over health and only encourage voluntary compliance. When the San Francisco Bay Area experiences bad air quality days, the Bay Area AQMD bans further burning. Davis should also ban burning on bad air quality days while the city continues to work toward eliminating the burning that creates the bad air days in the first place.

The City of Davis strictly regulates the disposal of most waste, yet still allows the release of garbage into our air from discretionary burning. Davis needs to stop allowing this pollution that wrecks our air and health.

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Comments

54 responses to “Smoke menace”

  1. Kay Been

    I don’t have the same sensitivity to smoke, but I have always found it ironic that so many Davisites express concern for the environment/climate change and decry the the wildfires, but seem to think nothing of pouring all that wood smoke into our air every winter.

  2. Darell

    @Kay Been,
    Thanks for bringing up that important comparison. It is one of the many related points that I left on the cutting room floor for the sake of brevity.
    In the winter, we voluntarily make our air as bad as when we have wildfires.

  3. Thank you for writing this, Darell. I think this is an eloquent statement of why the City needs to do better and points to a relatively simple way it can start to do that. It also very nicely highlights how ridiculous the current “policy” is.
    For what it’s worth, polluted air makes me sick, too. I have asthma and there have been a few nights this year when I was coughing and choking just from walking down the block — to be clear, I have mild asthma and normally am not bothered at all unless there is a trigger. It’s also affected our indoor air quality. That all being said, I think some people think that if they aren’t in a “sensitive” group they don’t have to worry, but I think they are wrong (as your post shows). I think there are long term impacts of our bad winter air, especially when combined with our bad summer-wildfire air.

  4. Karen

    Darrell: Thank you for posting this. A few weeks ago, a horse in my boarding barn in Davis developed a very disturbing cough. No one could discern why this horse was suddenly so debilitated until I looked at the AQI which was nearly 150. Even the vet who attended the horse could not figure out why he was coughing so severely until I pointed out that the air was “unhealthy for sensitive groups”.
    The smell of smoke from Davis fireplaces/firepits is more than just annoying: it is a health hazard. All of us deserve a stronger “policy” about wood smoke from our City Council. “Please refrain” is useless.

  5. Nikki

    This is such an important topic. I hate walking in the winter and getting smoked out by people clueless about what they are doing to the air. Of course, there’s nothing like a toasty fire. But this is 2023 and we can’t be naive any longer about the implications this has on our air quality, climate/ozone, and lung and heart health.

  6. Ron O

    Not necessarily disagreeing with the points raised here, but since natural gas is also on its “way out”, one wonders if electricity is actually going to meet the demands of society (let alone do so in a carbon-free manner).
    One wonders how the Native Americans survived the fires they built (and the wildfires they experienced). Not to mention all wildlife.

  7. Keith

    I agree with Ron, with the price of electricity and natural gas going sky high people are going to try to stay warm any way they can afford. Burning wood in the fireplace is a much cheaper alternative.

  8. darell

    One wonders how the Native Americans survived the fires they built<<
    My guess is that life expectancy was much lower, they didn’t live in a dense urban environment, they built right-sized practical fires. And they didn’t have a lot of options.
    There are certainly some remote areas where burning for heat will make sense for a long time to come. But Davis isn’t one of them.

  9. Ron O

    Darrell:
    I’m not sure whether or not Native Americans lived in “dense environments” (e.g., small villages where everyone had a fire for cooking, warmth, etc.). Maybe even using fire more so than in modern “dense” environments.
    For that matter, they purposefully set fires for various reasons in the “wild”, as well. (As with current forestry management, as well.)
    I don’t know how we (and other animals) evolved in the first place, without some internal/bodily protection against smoke. It’s always been part of the environment.
    Maybe (as you say), it lead to earlier demise of individuals.
    But since the push is to do-away with natural gas as well, the default is to rely upon electricity. (Which is operating on a system that is already strained, and not carbon-free.)

  10. Alan C. Miller

    Darrell DD, Dang, you bring out my inner ambivalent. I love me a good fire, love the smell of wood smoke, and want to yell ‘kill joys’ at the anti-smoke people. I also think that people should respect your neighbors with medical issues and not burn stuff. I cannot resolve these conflicting views in myself.

  11. John Whitehead

    Gotta love the first comment from Kay Been, “I don’t have the same sensitivity to smoke.”
    Why do we never hear anyone say these similarly condescending things?
    “I don’t have the same sensitivity to food grown with pesticides.”
    “I don’t have the same sensitivity to drinking tap water.”
    People buy organic food and bottled water because they don’t want to put garbage into their bodies, then strangely fail to recognize that inhalation is the fastest path from the outside world into the bloodstream. Nothing but leftover mentality from the days of not knowing what smoke is, but now we are almost a quarter of the way into the 21st Century. And people who lack “sensitivity” still get cancer for no reason at all, right?

  12. Alan, seems to me that this is a similar issue to the ziptrack. While it brings enjoyment for some, it causes significant harm to others, and so the right thing to do is stop causing the harm. Of course I love a nice fire too — I think most people do — but in this context and now that we know the effects, I don’t think I could enjoy one anymore.

  13. Darell

    I appreciate you all for commenting on my essay.
    We develop some weird “likes” in our lifetimes, don’t we? And it is because we associate certain activities and smells and sounds with familiar, happy times in our lives. I don’t think that we’re born with a fondness for the things that are bad for us. Smelling toxic gases and particles, loud sounds, drinking alcohol. We learn these things.
    I admit that I’m filled with a sense of well-being when I smell creosote used on dock piers mixed with salt water and reef-destroying sunscreen. Even the smell of partially combusted 2-stroke oil mixed with salt water takes me back to an amazing time of water-skiing in the pacific northwest. Some people “like” the deafening, polluting roar of a supercar or unmuffled V-twin accelerating. And I fully understand how lovely and cozy a fire can be. Oh, and I REALLY like taste of beer that’s not good for me.
    I know how destructive these activities, smells, tastes and sounds can be. And while my daily activities are far from benign, I do try to make the best choices at each fork in the road while still maintaining my enjoyment of life. I know from my own experience that new, positive associations can be made for activities that do less harm.
    The motorcycling of my youth turned into bicycling.
    The power-boating and water-skiing turned into kayaking and paddle boarding.
    The sports car with glass-pack muffler turned into an electric vehicle.
    My cozy fire is now an image of a fire coupled with a solar-powered heat pump.
    Yes, I miss some of the more destructive stuff. But I’d rather deal with that than in knowing the voluntary harm that my brief enjoyment is causing others (and myself!). The ziptrack analogy is a great example, IMO.

  14. Ron O

    “I don’t think that we’re born with a fondness for the things that are bad for us.”
    One word: Chocolate.
    The chocolate of my youth turned into chocolate as an adult.
    Milk chocolate, none of that so-called “good for you” dark chocolate.

  15. Tuvia ben Sima Rivka ve Abraham Aharon

    Do we know what we want? If we can’t use fireplaces at all what’s the point of having them? Will home insurance companies have lower rates if a fireplace is taken out of the equation? If people take their fireplace out of service can they deduct the cost it took to do so? Do our children learn about home smoke at the same time they learn about wildfire smoke? Do the thousands of new residents who arrive every year and every academic quarter learn about home smoke? Can the city council members all commit to not doing it? While being smoked out when walking outside is horrible for everyone even if they don’t realize it, who if anyone is disproportionately affected by home smoke when inside their own homes?

  16. darell

    “Milk chocolate, none of that so-called “good for you” dark chocolate.”
    Oh Ron. This explains so much! :-/

  17. Alan C. Miller

    DDD: “The ziptrack analogy is a great example, IMO.”
    Which means the City Council is likely to give as much of a shit.
    RO: “One word: Chocolate. The chocolate of my youth turned into chocolate as an adult.”
    I would ROFL if I were not in a public place. Maybe I will ROFL regardless.
    JW: ‘Gotta love the first comment from Kay Been, “I don’t have the same sensitivity to smoke.” Why do we never hear anyone say these similarly condescending things?’
    Not sure why you are calling the comment condescending when it could be true, unlike the examples you gave . . . and the commenter was agreeing with you.
    RM: seems to me that this is a similar issue to the ziptrack. While it brings enjoyment for some, it causes significant harm to others, and so the right thing to do is stop causing the harm.
    Could also be looked as similarly to Davis switching to electric stoves from gas stoves to save the climate while 200 years of industrialization plus China promising to slow the rate of building new coal-fire power plants by 2030 (some sort of ‘win’?) has and is pooching the planet — i.e. what anyone does in their kitchen isn’t a flea on an elephant’s back going to save the climate – and Davis doing it is more likely to elicit a laugh than set an example. But cooking will suck.
    On the other hand, I used to love fireworks and as of last year all I could picture was dogs cowering under beds and leaping backyard fences instead of the red, white & blue. Killed the fun. So maybe I’ll come around to y’all’s point-of-view on cozy fires before I pass on to the next dimension. But I doubt it. Because I care about dogs more than people. And I don’t care much about dogs.
    TVSRVAA: “Do we know what we want?”
    And when do we want it? NOW!
    TVSRVAA: “If we can’t use fireplaces at all what’s the point of having them?”
    Nostalgia?
    Santa Claus?
    TVSRVAA: “Will home insurance companies have lower rates if a fireplace is taken out of the equation?”
    If it saves them money. My niece’s house burned down because their fireplace set the house on fire. The contractor had installed the heat wall backwards.
    TVSRVAA: “If people take their fireplace out of service can they deduct the cost it took to do so?”
    The cost of not having a fire?
    Similar to how people will be able to deduct the cost of installing a 220v line to install an electric range to replace their electric range? . . . and Make Dixon Pay for It!
    TVSRVAA: “Do our children learn about home smoke at the same time they learn about wildfire smoke?”
    Is wildfire smoke a elective or a required course?
    TVSRVAA: “Do the thousands of new residents who arrive every year and every academic quarter learn about home smoke?”
    It’s right there in the welcome brochure just after not snoring too loud in multi-unit housing, how to apply for the Davis-Based Buyers Program, applications for the waiting(and waiting and waiting)-list for housing at Nishi, the page on renting a bulldozer for destroying burrowing-owl habitat (for sport and development), the page on East of Mace glider rides that will start operating when Ramos finally figures out how to garner 50% of the vote, a Mace Mess obstacle course map, a map unofficially-sanctioned outdoor-living locations for drug addicts, and of course a map showing the location for the new city-sanctioned evening cow-bell percussion circles (which by pure chance was cited behind the Krovoza’s rear fence).
    TVSRVAA: “Can the city council members all commit to not doing it?”
    Why not ask them? Unless you are a ‘usual suspect’ in which case you will be ignored — unless you happen to agree with EVERYONE in which case a council-member may fell the need to explain WHY they voted the same as the ‘usual suspects’ – y’know, because EVERYONE agrees, because they’d never be caught dead voting the same a ‘usual suspect’ otherwise and isn’t great how everyone agree?!!!! BLAH BLAH BLAH. What was the question again?
    TVSRVAA: “While being smoked out when walking outside is horrible for everyone even if they don’t realize it, who if anyone is disproportionately affected by home smoke when inside their own homes?”
    When inside their own homes, those with poorly sealed homes are more disproportionately affected by home smoke than those with well-sealed homes with expensive air filters.
    When outside their own homes they are being horribly smoked out.
    As you say 😐

  18. Keith

    “Milk chocolate, none of that so-called “good for you” dark chocolate.”
    Oh Ron. This explains so much! :-/
    Posted by: darell
    Maybe this went completely over my head but please explain exactly what you meant on how Ron’s comment “explains so much”.

  19. Tuvia

    AM: Thanks so much for referencing Partida’s “usual suspects” thing from the council discussion about appointments and special elections. In an oddly “Davis” way, her flag of listening was also a flag of hazing.

  20. darell

    @Keith,
    Because Ron prefers milk (ick) chocolate. Clearly what he says can’t be trusted. Everybody knows that the only real chocolate is dark chocolate.
    It was a joke. A brief interlude of humor if you will.
    Is that an exact-enough explaining? I’m afraid that you were expecting more. Something with thought and depth. And for that I apologize.

  21. Darell

    AM: “But cooking will suck.”
    Oh dood. So wrong. (hmmm, that was too dramatic… so uninformed??) There are ten benefits of my induction top to every one benefit that my commercial gas top offered. The induction is hotter, faster, more precise, goes much LOWER heat when desired, is less dangerous from ALL angles, easier to clean, lower-profile. And it still works even without my gas meter… Oh man.
    Yes resistive electric sucks. We can all agree on that. But this isn’t 1950.
    Don’t fear the change to better things.

  22. John Whitehead

    Alan Miller, you referred to my January 6 post about word usage (“sensitive”) with a comment on my own word usage (“condescending”). You quoted my question without answering, so here is another try, three examples (can anyone answer my questions instead of questioning my questions?).
    If someone does not want to drink tap water from a particular faucet because they don’t like the taste, and maybe it makes them feel queasy, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?
    If someone likes expensive wine but not cheap wine, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?
    If someone does not want to eat food that was dropped on the floor, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?
    In my example contexts, the word “sensitive” does not seem to be commonly used, so I feel that there is a bias in using the word to label people who don’t want to inhale smoke.
    Bonus question, if someone does not want to inhale flatulence, are they labeled as “sensitive”?
    Regarding my own word usage, if “condescending” doesn’t seem right, how about simply “offensive”? I am offended by the biased usage of “sensitive.”
    When a particular word is offensive to a minority group, is it appropriate for non-members of that group to simply dismiss the concern?

  23. Ron O

    Darrell: “Because Ron prefers milk (ick) chocolate. Clearly what he says can’t be trusted. Everybody knows that the only real chocolate is dark chocolate.”
    Personally, I think the only one who “can’t be trusted” is someone who has supposedly convinced themselves that bicycling as an adult is more fun than motorcycling during youth. (Actually, I’ve tried to convince myself of that, as well.)
    Or that dark chocolate doesn’t taste like coffee beans, right out of the bag.
    But really what this (and to some degree the issue regarding smoke says) is that we’re more concerned about health risks as we get older (and supposedly, wiser).
    This was (sort of) the reason that air quality was supposedly not as much of an issue at Nishi as it normally would be (e.g., young people, not staying there beyond a few years). Not sure that this argument is backed by science, but there you have it.
    John: “If someone likes expensive wine but not cheap wine, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?”
    No – we call them “snobs” (vs. “cheapskates”). Or “connoisseurs”, vs. “frugal”.
    On a more serious note, I’d say that the city should continue allowing people to use existing fireplaces at times, unless they want to pay everyone who has one to convert them. (And at this point, that conversion would presumably only be to electricity, not gas.)

  24. Ron O

    Though “wine” (whether it’s “cheap”, or “not”) is an interesting example of something that some of us still “hope” is more good for us, than bad.
    Of course, that’s more of an individual choice, vs. something foisted-upon others.
    But I suspect that most people still engage in at least some behaviors that aren’t healthy. (Including, at times, commenting on local blogs or social media.)
    Personally, I’m not too concerned about the small, relatively infrequent amount of smoke that I’m sometimes exposed to (in areas which allow it, or during wildfire season). I do avoid exercising in it, though maybe it also provides a good excuse to not exercise.
    I’m not sure how big of a problem this actually is in Davis (overall), these days. Maybe it also depends upon the individual neighborhoods.

  25. Alan C. Miller

    AM: “But cooking will suck.”
    DDD: “Oh dood. So wrong. (hmmm, that was too dramatic… so uninformed??)”
    You decide
    DDD: “There are ten benefits of my induction top to every one benefit that my commercial gas top offered.”
    Uninformed I guess . . . no idea what that is. But I’m guessing they don’t make them for the size range I would need (very small).
    DDD: “is less dangerous from ALL angles,”
    I’ll never forget 15 year or so back when my landlord delivered a ‘new’ used range. First time I knew what an electrical fire looks like. Terrifying. I opened it up and all the wires had been joined with electrical tape. I’m not sure if they fixed it themselves – never asked – but I sent them a video of the stove top on fire and they gave me a new one. Yes, electricity does burn.
    DDD: “Yes resistive electric sucks.”
    That’s why I resist it.
    DDD: “But this isn’t 1950.”
    My house was built in 1916 and has had few upgrades. So I figure I’m living in about 1930. I may just make it to 1950 before I pass on to the next world.
    DDD: “Don’t fear the change to better things.”
    OH, DDD, you did not drop a fear-of-change bomb on me, did you? That is so Davis City Council, so Davis Vanguard. You are better than that ! … 😐

  26. Alan C. Miller

    JW: “Alan Miller,”
    Yes?
    JW: “you referred to my January 6 post about word usage (“sensitive”) with a comment on my own word usage (“condescending”).”
    I have no memory of that. Not that I didn’t.
    JW: “You quoted my question without answering”
    I did? I thought I answered, though I don’t remember the question. Maybe I didn’t aswer to you satisfaction? Although, I’m not sure what the purpose of answering questions is, as most questions are actually statements, which is why I ‘answer’ them. Whatever I did, I did respond, whereas 99.99% of Davis did not.
    JW: “so here is another try, three examples (can anyone answer my questions instead of questioning my questions?).”
    Am I anyone? Will ‘anyone’ else?
    JW: “If someone does not want to drink tap water from a particular faucet because they don’t like the taste, and maybe it makes them feel queasy, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?”
    What people?
    JW: “If someone likes expensive wine but not cheap wine, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?”
    What people?
    JW: “If someone does not want to eat food that was dropped on the floor, do people call them “sensitive” and if not, why not?”
    What people?
    JW: “In my example contexts, the word “sensitive” does not seem to be commonly used, so I feel that there is a bias in using the word to label people who don’t want to inhale smoke.”
    You could have just said that.
    JW: “Bonus question, if someone does not want to inhale flatulence, are they labeled as “sensitive”?”
    I don’t know if they are labeled at all. By anyone. But I do often enjoy the smell of my own flatulence. I wonder why that is? Am I labeled a ‘self-flatulation enjoyer’ ? If so, by whom?
    JW: “Regarding my own word usage, if “condescending” doesn’t seem right, how about simply “offensive”? I am offended by the biased usage of “sensitive.””
    I’m not sure what you are talking about.
    JW: “When a particular word is offensive to a minority group, is it appropriate for non-members of that group to simply dismiss the concern?”
    That depends on how sensitive they are, are who they is, and who defines the word ‘appropriate’.

  27. I’m going to take a stab at bringing this back around to the issues that Darell raised in the original post… I mentioned the ziptrack as an analogy, when responding to Alan M, specifically because I knew that he was concerned about the ziptrack noise and the change to the noise ordinance. But right, that analogy wouldn’t work for a lot of people who are like, what’s a little noise? don’t you like children, etc.
    So I guess I’d call on everyone to imagine something that could bring some folks a little pleasure while causing harm to you — whether it’s noise, smoke, or something else noxious. Pesticides, anyone? Or maybe leaf blowers? Fireworks? Doesn’t matter what it is, but the argument is the same. Some people’s small pleasures shouldn’t be allowed to trump major harms to other people and nonhuman beings. It’s basic decency.
    To me that is the issue with both the smoke and the ziptrack, although one directly affects me and one does not.

  28. Alan C. Miller

    RO: “someone who has supposedly convinced themselves that bicycling as an adult is more fun than motorcycling during youth.”
    I resemble that remark.
    RO: “Or that dark chocolate doesn’t taste like coffee beans, right out of the bag.”
    Had you said ‘does’, I would resemble that remark. And I love coffee beans right out of the bag. If it’s a roast I like. And milk chocolate is putrid.
    RO: “the reason that air quality was supposedly not as much of an issue at Nishi as it normally would be (e.g., young people, not staying there beyond a few years). Not sure that this argument is backed by science”.
    No, but the argument was backed by a scien-TIST.
    RO: “No – we call them “snobs” (vs. “cheapskates”). Or “connoisseurs”, vs. “frugal”.”
    And if they drink no wine at all, we call them ‘teetotalers’. Or we did, 80 years ago. And if they whine at City Council meetings, some at the dais may call them ‘the usual suspects’.
    RO: ” . . . and at this point, that conversion would presumably only be to electricity, not gas.”
    I recently had to install an electrical connection for a project elsewhere. Sans what it was for, that alone was a $16k expense. I’m sure everyone can afford that if it brings them nothing monetary in return. No problem! . . . and make Dixon pay for it!
    RO: “Though “wine” (whether it’s “cheap”, or “not”) is an interesting example of something that some of us still “hope” is more good for us, than bad.
    Speak for yourself. I despise wine, always have.
    RO: “Of course, that’s more of an individual choice, vs. something foisted-upon others.”
    Unless one gets really-really drunk and foisters themselves upon others . . . yuck.
    RO: “But I suspect that most people still engage in at least some behaviors that aren’t healthy.”
    You suspect correctly.s
    RO: “(Including, at times, commenting on local blogs or social media.)”
    The worst.
    RO: “Personally, I’m not too concerned about the small, relatively infrequent amount of smoke that I’m sometimes exposed to (in areas which allow it, or during wildfire season).”
    My lungs hurt during that summer of wildfires. Wildfires are so insensitive.
    RO: “I do avoid exercising in it, though maybe it also provides a good excuse to not exercise.”
    I know that one — and the answer is ‘both’.
    RO: “I’m not sure how big of a problem this actually is in Davis (overall), these days.”
    Lots of wood-smoke in the air today, because all those people with electric heaters can’t use them, because 2/3 of Davis has NO electricity since midnight. So those with electric-only heaters are burning wood to stay warm. Something we should all think about as climate-change activists insist on policies that put more pressure on the power grid and insist people have no natural gas alternative. Who I really feel sorry for are those with electric heat and no fireplace. Those people must be COLD today.
    RO: “Maybe it also depends upon the individual neighborhoods.”
    More like individual situations, like when someone with a fireplace and uses it lives upwind from someone with asthma and a poorly-sealed house.

  29. Alan C. Miller

    RM: “I’m going to take a stab at bringing this back around to the issues that Darell raised in the original post… ”
    Good luck.
    RM: “I mentioned the ziptrack as an analogy, when responding to Alan M, specifically because I knew that he was concerned about the ziptrack noise and the change to the noise ordinance. But right, that analogy wouldn’t work for a lot of people who are like, what’s a little noise? don’t you like children, etc.”
    I don’t like children.
    RM: “So I guess I’d call on everyone to imagine something that could bring some folks a little pleasure while causing harm to you — whether it’s noise, smoke, or something else noxious.”
    How about the nightclub scene downtown? Where for over a decade my house shook THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP-THUMP- from 10:45pm to 1:45am every Thursday – Saturday. Until the Ket-Mo-urder-Ree. And as a bonus drunks returning home would occasionally flip over our garbage cans. Oh yeah that still happens. Did the bars compensate the neighbors for not sleeping for three hous for their night-club profits? Nope. Eat it, neighbors!
    RM: “Pesticides, anyone? Or maybe leaf blowers? Fireworks? Doesn’t matter what it is, but the argument is the same.”
    I don’t think it is the same, rather, each has their own circumstances and issues to balance. I would argue wood smoke is more like Covid-19 and masks and vaccines. At what point in the pandemic do people have to wear masks and get vaccinated for the good of society, and at what point is it an acceptable risk for society and those who are at risk have to look out for themselves. Clearly there was shift from one to the other in society, a shift that took place much sooner in red areas than in blue areas. And a shift that had an element of complete insanity in the transition — such as wearing masks into restaurants and then taking the masks off to eat.
    RM: “Some people’s small pleasures shouldn’t be allowed to trump major harms to other people and nonhuman beings.”
    Such as drinking and driving cars. Or just driving cars generally.
    RM: “It’s basic decency. To me that is the issue with both the smoke and the ziptrack, although one directly affects me and one does not.”
    Not being forced to boil my potatoes in fluoride seemed like basic decency to me, but lots of very blue people wanted to force that to directly affect all of us.

  30. Keith

    Awww “Sensitivity”,
    I have a neighbor lady who doesn’t like it for some reason when I leave my garage door open during the day.
    So am I being insensitive when I leave it open or is she being too sensitive to it being open?
    You can’t cater to and please everyone’s sensitivities because there will be no end to it.

  31. Keith, your comment helps me answer Alan. The harms caused by the sound of the ziptrack, the nightclub scene downtown, smoke, covid-19 virus are genuine effects to those anyone who is exposed to them. They aren’t “sensitivities” — that is a very inaccurate term. I know the EPA uses it, but the EPA is also in the process of re-doing their AQI scale, I understand. I think the more we find out about small particles, the more we learn that they are harmful to everyone’s long term health, not just pregnant women, small children, people with asthma, older people, people with heart trouble (note that this is not a small group to start with!!!)
    So again I say that people’s small pleasures should not trump harms to other people, even though in our society they often do. That doesn’t make it right.
    As for someone not liking their neighbor’s garage to be open, there is no real, genuine harm there. I’m not even sure that “sensitivity” is the right term for that. Some people’s worries far exceed the actual harms present.

  32. Ron O

    Dumping yardwaste in the street (for pickup) is another issue that impacts some, but not others so much. (I strongly believe that it is an overall benefit.)
    Also, the elimination of onsite parking requirements, for new developments. Which inevitably impacts pre-existing neighbors.
    As the city becomes larger/more dense, all such issues and conflicts are magnified. There rarely is one totally “wrong” or “right” answer.
    This is the type of thing where whatever decisions are made will make someone unhappy.
    But I didn’t realize that there is apparently no actual ban on fires, until I actually read Darrell’s article. (I thought that it already was banned on some days.)
    I wouldn’t have guessed in advance that this article would generate so many responses.

  33. Chris

    Utilizing wood as heat source is very healthy just think of all the exercise you’ll get plus you can stay warm four times from a stove/fireplace.
    First is cutting the wood and hauling the wood.
    Second is splitting the wood
    Third is stacking the wood.
    Fourth is burning the word

  34. Ron O

    “Fourth is burning the word.”
    You’re referring to “book burning” in fireplaces? Killing two birds with one stone? (Maybe “three”, if you also count the bird?)
    “Fifth” is fighting with the neighbors, assuming that the smoke doesn’t render them ineffective at fighting.
    But seriously, I would think that most people use their fireplaces at night, when most people are inside.
    In any case, it’s good to hear from Chris again on here.

  35. Chris Griffith

    Switzerland eliminated all landfills a couple of decades ago. Everything is incinerated. This has numerous advantages. First, you save land. Second, you aren’t leaving time bombs for future generations. Third, you can reclaim most metals. Fourth, you get free energy. Modern incinerators are also very clean – pollution is not a concern.

  36. darell

    @(wood-stacking) Chris,

    >
    You can stay warm four times…
    First is cutting the wood and hauling the wood.
    Second is splitting the wood
    Third is stacking the wood.
    Fourth is burning the word
    <<
    And yet people in this very thread have said that without burning (wood, natural gas, garbage, whatever you please) there’s NO OTHER WAY TO STAY WARM if the electricity goes out. (Because I guess sweaters and hats are so tough to find these days?)
    So thank you for providing three additional healthy ways to stay warm without harming others. Plus that last superfluous one that makes me sick…
    I can add: Sweeping, mopping, painting, vacuuming (maybe, tends to ruin the indoor AQI), yard work, kneading bread, washing clothes, inviting your dog onto your lap, walking, running, cycling (assuming the locals aren’t burning) screaming in rage at social media.

  37. darell

    >
    Everything is incinerated…. you get free energy. Modern incinerators are also very clean – pollution is not a concern.
    <<
    While I appreciate the data point, this has very little to do with my concern of mostly open-hearth, poor-combustion burning in Davis. Switzerland takes air quality seriously, so I’m sure they do an outstanding job after considering the positive and negative effect on the residents. Here in Davis our air is considered a public toilet.

  38. Alan C. Miller

    Chris’ four part on wood burning reminded me of the similar metaphor to the ‘teach a man to fish . . . ‘ ditty.
    Teach a man to build a fire, keep him warm for night . . .
    Set a man on fire, keep him warm for rest of his life

  39. Chris Griffith

    Darell,
    To me the best way to stay warm when electricity goes out is to just stay in bed and have sex

  40. Ron “Milk Chocolate” O.

    Just happened across this article:
    “Last month, a Consumer Reports study discovered that many common dark chocolate bars contain both lead and cadmium, two heavy metals that pose risks when digested in large amounts.”
    “Cadmium and lead are present in cocoa and chocolate due to [the] soil,” explained Christopher Gindlesperger, senior vice president of public affairs and communications for the National Confectioners Association, in an email to SFGATE.”

    https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/ghirardelli-trader-joes-chocolate-lead-17700023.php?IPID=SFGate-HP-CP-Spotlight
    Reminds me of the following Woody Allen film clip:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iG6Hrh4v08
    Any chance that smoke will (someday) be found to have vital health benefits? (Just kidding.)

  41. Alan C. Miller

    This thread is about wood burning, not natural gas. Is anyone saying that natural gas burning causes asthma or small particles in the lungs?

  42. Chris Griffith

    Darell
    Thank you very much for writing this story. You’re motivated me to get out my gas powered chainsaw and chop up two olive trees into fire wood that fell down during recent storm.

  43. Chris chris

    Alan,
    RE: This thread is about wood burning, not natural gas. Is anyone saying that natural gas burning causes asthma or small particles in the lungs?
    YEP…
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/06/gas-stove-pollution-causes-127-childhood-asthma-study-finds/

  44. Alan C. Miller

    I’m guessing Chris and Chris Griffith are different people 😐
    Aware of that study. I meant amongst those here who are against wood burning.
    So far we here we have impugned wood smoke, natural gas, and dark chocolate 😐
    Next?

  45. Keith

    Hey gang,
    Did you know that gas stoves are racist?
    “The stoves, which are used in about 40 percent of homes in the U.S., emit pollutants including nitrogen dioxide, carbon monoxide and fine particulate matter at levels deemed unsafe by the EPA and World Health Organization. The emissions have been linked to illness, cardiovascular problems, cancer, and other health conditions. More than 12 percent of current childhood asthma cases are linked to gas stove use, according to peer-reviewed research published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health last month.”
    “Senator Cory Booker (D., N.J.) and Representative Don Beyer (D., Va.) wrote a letter to the agency last month urging the commission to address the issue and calling the harmful emissions a “cumulative burden” on black, Latino and low-income households.”
    https://news.yahoo.com/biden-administration-considers-banning-gas-163829836.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

  46. Alan C.Miller

    That is strange Keith. I know a rich white woman who has a gas stove.

  47. Keith

    Alan, I have a gas stove, gas heating furnace, gas clothes dryer and a gas fireplace and I’m as white as the freshly fallen Tahoe snow. So as a white man I’m part of the population that are unfairly being subjected to the “cumulative burden” of harmful emissions. Time to march…

  48. Alan C. Miller

    Strange how that article on natural gas harm, complete with woke political message, was released just as the big ‘all-electric’ push was put out there. Never heard any such thing in the last half-century. My appliances have vents.
    What do you figure it would cost you to convert to all-electric. I was just assisting on a project where a single 220v line was run from the box, an upgraded box was put in to accommodate, and a line was run across the house. The bill was over $15,000. Is this a burden we force on all homeowners? Considering how widespread it is, even if the state paid for it, that would raise taxes by billions so you’d pay for it anyway.
    Those with electric heaters or even fancy gas that requires the electricity to be on and has no manual on switch were SOL. Sure, suggestions like cuddling the dog in bed sound fine – if you are going to do little — and this time it was a tropical storm. But last time when the power was out for 3 days a few years back my neighbors with gas kept warm, while my neighbors with all-electric were freezing as it was in the 30’s. Do people honestly think cuddling the dog and wearing a wool cap and down for 3 days is a practical answer to the electric heat being out? What about the elderly or others for whom living in 30-degrees for three days could be life threatening?

  49. Chris

    I know all of you hobnob with the Rich and famous is governor’s Mansion 100% electric?
    And that presidential Palace in Washington DC is it 100% electric?
    ?

  50. Ron O

    And wouldn’t you know it:
    “Christine Ng works the wood fire in the kitchen at The French Laundry restaurant in Yountville, California, on Thursday, Feb. 16, 2017.”
    https://www.sfgate.com/restaurants/article/Inside-the-French-Laundry-s-new-10-million-10941359.php
    So I guess it’s o.k. if food is exposed to wood fire.

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